Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

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IvoCarog
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby IvoCarog » 2010-04-20, 6:58

Kia ora Riptide! Thank you for your answer! I was starting to think that the forum's completely dead...I'm in the beginning of my Māori learning and I have many "small" questions :ohwell: and I need a place where I can ask them - so I'll do it here :silly:
Here goes the first one:

I kite au i a ia.

What's that "a" in the example :hmm: can't you just say "I kite au i ia"?!
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Riptide » 2010-04-20, 22:01

Well, to translate the sentence, it roughly translates to "I saw you", where I is the subject of the sentence and you is the object. If you omit the "a" in i kite au i a ia, that would make the you a second subject which is wrong. So basically, the "a" makes the subject pronoun an object pronoun in this case. Here's a good description of how the "a" particle is used in the language: http://kupu.maori.nz/Show.aspx?page=33. Anyways, hope this helps. :)
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby kahihi'o » 2010-04-21, 9:30

Riptide wrote:Well, to translate the sentence, it roughly translates to "I saw you", where I is the subject of the sentence and you is the object. If you omit the "a" in i kite au i a ia, that would make the you a second subject which is wrong. So basically, the "a" makes the subject pronoun an object pronoun in this case. Here's a good description of how the "a" particle is used in the language: http://kupu.maori.nz/Show.aspx?page=33. Anyways, hope this helps. :)


I kite au i a ia.

In the example above, the preposition marks the object. In Hawaiian, we use the preposition i for regular nouns and for pronouns and proper nouns. This a in Hawaiian is the same particle in Māori. If the particle a were not present in the example and was instead, 'I kite au i ia,' we would be treating the pronoun ia as if it were a regular noun. To my understanding, the particle a in Māori is used in the subject position as well to mark proper nouns, and less commonly to mark the pronoun ia when in the subject position. This is similar to the use of the particle ʻo in Hawaiian when marking proper nouns and the pronoun ia in the subject position.

The a referred to in the link in the quote above refers a homonym which is a possessive particle.
I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai, no ke kai kā hoʻi ua ʻāina.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby IvoCarog » 2010-04-29, 20:21

Many thanks to both of you for your answers.
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby IvoCarog » 2010-05-04, 15:25

double-post :whistle:

Anothet question from me :silly: What's the difference (if any) between "tangata" and "tāne"!? As I understand it - both of them mean "man"? I could guess that "tangata" includes both male and female, and "tāne" - only male!? Is that correct!?
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Riptide » 2010-05-04, 19:03

Yes, that's practically correct. Well think about it, the word "man" in English refers to a male person as well as a human being. Tangata refers to a human being (better translated as "person") while tāne refers to a male person. Tāne can also refer to a groom or a husband as well.
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Nooj » 2010-06-13, 18:01

In the All Blacks haka, when they say ka mate or ka ora, am I to understand ka mate (ahau) - I will die?

In the national anthem, it starts of E Ihowa. Is the 'e' here the particle that precedes the name you're calling, e.g. 'tena koe e Hine' or is it something else?

I'm just starting to learn the language by the way.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Riptide » 2010-06-15, 19:42

According to Wikipedia:
ka mate: 'tis death OR I may die
ka ora: 'tis life OR I may live

As for the particle "e", I think it's the present indicative particle, but I'm not 100% sure.
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby kahihi'o » 2010-06-18, 10:04

The particular E referred to in the phrase "E Ihowa" is the vocative particle that precedes the name of the person that you are calling to.
I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai, no ke kai kā hoʻi ua ʻāina.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Nooj » 2010-11-21, 23:03

kahihi'o wrote:The particular E referred to in the phrase "E Ihowa" is the vocative particle that precedes the name of the person that you are calling to.

But I thought that e was only used with names of two syllables.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Ariki » 2011-01-02, 11:07

Nooj wrote:
kahihi'o wrote:The particular E referred to in the phrase "E Ihowa" is the vocative particle that precedes the name of the person that you are calling to.

But I thought that e was only used with names of two syllables.


You are correct Nooj however the national anthem was translated into Māori by a person who didn't speak Māori well. Below is the national anthem and underneath in bold are my corrections;

E Ihowa Atua,
O ngā iwi mātou rā,
Āta whakarangona,
Me aroha noa,

Kia hua ko te pai,
Kia tau tō atawhai,
Manaakitia mai,
Aotearoa!

E te Atua o ngā iwi,
O mātou nei, Ihowa,
Āta whakarongo mai,
Me te aroha noa mai,

Kia hua ko te pai,
Kia tau mai tō atawhai,
Manaakitia mai,
Aotearoa!


As you can see with my corrections the first two lines go through a major re-write, the third line is changed from a passive directive to an active one and the last line has been changed from a weak imperative and has been connected with the line above it (that He listens whilst he does so in compassion).

The chorus only needed mai to be added. The effect of it is to give a sense of direction for where His grace should be headed (towards the people singing the song).
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He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Nooj » 2011-01-19, 5:24

Thanks for that. I guess it'd be too much to hope to get a proper translation in the national freaking anthem. :x

I left New Zealand before they really started giving the options for teaching Maori at school. I'm hoping to come back and actually learn Maori sometime. But right now I'm only picking things up from the internet.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Ariki » 2011-01-19, 21:44

Nooj wrote:Thanks for that. I guess it'd be too much to hope to get a proper translation in the national freaking anthem. :x

I left New Zealand before they really started giving the options for teaching Maori at school. I'm hoping to come back and actually learn Maori sometime. But right now I'm only picking things up from the internet.


Kei te pai, I see you are living in NSW? If you don't mind me asking, are you of Maori descent as well? I know some non-Maori who are trying to study the language as well over here in Australia so don't give up.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Nooj » 2011-01-21, 21:27

Yeah, I live in Sydney. I'm actually of Korean descent.

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby TeneReef » 2011-03-21, 23:39

Hi,
I would like to know if Tarara means a Croat or only a Kiwi of Maori-Croat origin.
Thanks ;)

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Lauren » 2014-08-16, 21:12

Does anyone know much about the pronunciation of Māori? In listening to the recordings of Te Hū o Moho I have noticed what seem like some allophones I haven't seen mentioned anywhere. Specifically, I've noticed that /k/ sounds like /q/ before back vowels, and /t/ before non-back vowels sounds somewhat like /tʃ/, or maybe /ts̺/ which is Basque's <ts>. Are these accurate, or is this another case of me hearing sounds differently when they really aren't?

Thanks! :)
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby thepolishguy » 2014-08-16, 21:17

Lowena wrote:I've noticed that (...) /t/ sounds somewhat like /tʃ/, or maybe /ts̺/ which is like Basque's <ts>. Are these accurate, or is this another case of me hearing sounds differently when they really aren't?

You're probably right; New Zealand English quite often affricates /t/ to [ts̺̆] (the latter symbol stands for a short apico-alveolar [s]), I don't see why some Maori speakers wouldn't use this pronunciation. Especially given the fact that Maori /u/ moved from a back [u] to a central [ʉ] under the NZE influence...
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby Lauren » 2014-08-16, 21:20

Ah! I didn't know that. I don't know much in detail about the New Zealand English dialect. And thanks for the very quick reply! :)
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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby thepolishguy » 2014-08-16, 21:42

No problem! Bauer et al. (2007) is a great, concise (5 pages) description of the NZE. It also has a very detailed vowel chart.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Ko Te Marae Reo Maori - The Maori Language Marae

Postby hashi » 2015-03-09, 7:19

I've just started a Maori course through Te Wānanga o Raukawa in New Zealand. This should be interesting :)


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