The Polynesian-Language Thread

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ILuvEire
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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-08-06, 5:53

Aloha e Kahihi‘o :) Ua lilo loa au! Ua kipa aku ka ‘ohana ko‘u i kō mākuo mau makamaka. Noho lāua i ka San Jose, mawaho ka San Francisco, i ke Kaleponi. ‘Oia ho‘i, pono mākou ke māka‘ika‘i :P Ā laila, i kou manawa ho‘i hou i mākou (mana‘o au: "when we returned"), lawe aku au i nā wisdom niho (I had my wisdom teeth removed?? :? ), a nei, ho‘i hou au i ka ola maika‘i.

Pehea ‘oe, hoaloha?
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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby kahihi'o » 2010-08-11, 9:53

ILuvEire wrote:Aloha e Kahihi‘o :) Ua lilo loa au! Ua kipa aku koʻu ‘ohana i kō mākou mau makamaka. Noho lāua i San Jose, ma waho o San Francisco, i Kaleponi. ‘Oia ho‘i, pono mākou ke māka‘ika‘i :P Ā laila, i ko mākou manawa i hoʻi mai ai , ua hemo kaʻu mau niho "wisdom", a laila, ho‘i hou au i ke ola maika‘i.

Pehea ‘oe, hoaloha?


Oia mau nō au, e ke hoa. Pehea ka lōʻihi o kā ʻoukou huakaʻi ma Kaleponi? Hoʻokahi wale nō oʻu hele ʻana i laila, mau makahiki aku nei. ʻO ia ka wā hope loa aʻu i haʻalele ai i ka mokupuni aʻu e noho nei.

I ke awakea nei, ua hele aku nei mākou me koʻu ʻohana i ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni ʻo Earth Sea. Keu nō kēia a ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni manakā. ʻAʻohe oʻu hoihoi iki i kēia ki'iʻoniʻoni mai ka hoʻomaka ʻana a i ka hopena.
I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai, no ke kai kā hoʻi ua ʻāina.

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-08-13, 20:34

Oia mau nō au, e ke hoa. Pehea ka lōʻihi o kā ʻoukou huakaʻi ma Kaleponi? Hoʻokahi wale nō oʻu hele ʻana i laila, mau makahiki aku nei. ʻO ia ka wā hope loa aʻu i haʻalele ai i ka mokupuni aʻu e noho nei.

I ke awakea nei, ua hele aku nei mākou me koʻu ʻohana i ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni ʻo Earth Sea. Keu nō kēia a ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni manakā. ʻAʻohe oʻu hoihoi iki i kēia ki'iʻoniʻoni mai ka hoʻomaka ʻana a i ka hopena.

Ua hele mākou ma Kaleponi no nā pule ‘elua. :) ‘Ike ia‘u, le‘ale‘a nō ke Kaleponi. ‘Oiai ‘a‘ohe ou hoihoi, ho‘ole‘ale‘a ‘oe, ‘oia nō? Makemake au i ke Kaleponi, mana‘o au ke hele aku hou i laila. Ke Texas kūlewa mai nā mea hoihoi, ka Polenekia kūlewa loa!

Ua hele nei ‘oe ma kekahi mea i ka Polenekia? Makemake au ke hele aku ma Tahiti a Niuē a Tonga :)
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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-10-12, 20:44

Greetings!

Lately, I've been interested in how different languages express the conditional. How would one say "If I were a monkey, I would live in a tree" or "If you had called me, I would have come" in Tongan/Hawaiian/Maori?
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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-10-12, 20:56

Struthiomimus wrote:Greetings!

Lately, I've been interested in how different languages express the conditional. How would one say "If I were a monkey, I would live in a tree" or "If you had called me, I would have come" in Tongan/Hawaiian/Maori?

If I were a monkey, I would live in a tree = Inā au keko, inā au e noho i he lā‘au [conditional particle I monkey, conditional particle I verbal particle live locative particle a tree]
If you had called me, I would have come = Inā ‘oe e ua hea ia‘u, inā au e ua hele mai. [conditional particle you verbal particle past particle call to-me, conditional particle I verbal particle past particle go particle indicating motion towards the speaker]

I'm not 100% sure about the word order, but the short answer is that the conditional is expressed with the particle inā :D
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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Ariki » 2010-10-12, 22:14

Hi Struthiomimus,

Some Eastern Polynesian languages express the conditional with the phrase 'mehemea' or a variation thereof (mena, mehe, me being some of those variations).

Maori uses mehemea, mena, mehe and also has ina to express conditional 'if'. Of the four listed, only ina is truely a verbal particle (the rest would require the use of a verbal particle as me is a preposition.

Mehemea i waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au/Ina waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au.

If you had called me, I would have come.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-10-13, 20:06

Wow. You guys are fast! Cool. Thanks for the replies :D
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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby kahihi'o » 2010-10-22, 5:11

In Hawaiian, we would use inā for the sentences listed.

Inā he keko au, ua noho au ma ke kumulāʻau.

If I were a monkey, I'd live in a tree.

Inā ʻoe i kelepona mai iaʻu, ua hele mai nō au.
If you called me, I would have come (but I didn't).

Hawaiian also has the conditionals i and ke.

Ariki wrote:Hi Struthiomimus,

Some Eastern Polynesian languages express the conditional with the phrase 'mehemea' or a variation thereof (mena, mehe, me being some of those variations).

Maori uses mehemea, mena, mehe and also has ina to express conditional 'if'. Of the four listed, only ina is truely a verbal particle (the rest would require the use of a verbal particle as me is a preposition.

Mehemea i waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au/Ina waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au.

If you had called me, I would have come.


This is very interesting. I've never thought of me and mehemea in terms of being conditional. I wonder if these terms were once used in that way in Hawaiian. Currently, in Hawaiian we use the word me to mean "like" or "similar to."

Like ʻo ia me ka puaʻa.

He is like a pig.

Me kēia kāna ʻōlelo.
He spoke like this.

Me he lio lā ʻo ia ke holo aku.
He runs like a horse.

We also have me he mea, and the phrase usually means "it is/was as if."

Me he mea lā ua ʻaihue ʻia ka manaʻo o ke aliʻi wahine e Piʻikoiakaʻalalā.
It was as if the princess's thoughts had been stolen away by Piʻikoiakaʻalalā (because of her worrying about him).
I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai, no ke kai kā hoʻi ua ʻāina.

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Ariki » 2011-01-19, 22:01

kahihi'o wrote:In Hawaiian, we would use inā for the sentences listed.

Inā he keko au, ua noho au ma ke kumulāʻau.

If I were a monkey, I'd live in a tree.

Inā ʻoe i kelepona mai iaʻu, ua hele mai nō au.
If you called me, I would have come (but I didn't).

Hawaiian also has the conditionals i and ke.

Ariki wrote:Hi Struthiomimus,

Some Eastern Polynesian languages express the conditional with the phrase 'mehemea' or a variation thereof (mena, mehe, me being some of those variations).

Maori uses mehemea, mena, mehe and also has ina to express conditional 'if'. Of the four listed, only ina is truely a verbal particle (the rest would require the use of a verbal particle as me is a preposition.

Mehemea i waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au/Ina waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au.

If you had called me, I would have come.


This is very interesting. I've never thought of me and mehemea in terms of being conditional. I wonder if these terms were once used in that way in Hawaiian. Currently, in Hawaiian we use the word me to mean "like" or "similar to."

Like ʻo ia me ka puaʻa.

He is like a pig.

Me kēia kāna ʻōlelo.
He spoke like this.

Me he lio lā ʻo ia ke holo aku.
He runs like a horse.

We also have me he mea, and the phrase usually means "it is/was as if."

Me he mea lā ua ʻaihue ʻia ka manaʻo o ke aliʻi wahine e Piʻikoiakaʻalalā.
It was as if the princess's thoughts had been stolen away by Piʻikoiakaʻalalā (because of her worrying about him).


I'll have to see what Pollex says (it may have an entry about mehemea/me).

In some of your examples above they would be more comfortably expressed using penei/pena/pera and ano.

She spoke like this as if she was afraid

Ka penei tana korero metemea kua mataku ia

He is like a dog
Me he kuri ia

He sat there as if he were an ancient carved column

Ka noho ra ia ano nei he pou whakairo tawhito.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby kahihi'o » 2011-04-17, 12:00

Aloha mai kāua,

Yes, we also use pēnei and pēia. For some reason, they appear to be interchangeable with me + demonstrative.

So we can have:

me kēia/nēia = like this.
me kēnā = like that (like you are doing).
me kēlā = like that.

We do have pēnei, pēia, pēnā, and pēlā, though. I would say that me + demonstrative is more common in speech than formal writing.
I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai, no ke kai kā hoʻi ua ʻāina.

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-02-27, 14:35

Does anybody know the Tahitian language? I think it's very beautiful!


This is how the language sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pie39gb ... plpp_video
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby ILuvEire » 2012-03-12, 7:01

‘Ike au kahi loa ‘ōlelo Kahiki. Kohu like loa ka ‘ōlelo Hawai‘i. Kekahi nīnau kuhikuhi pono ou?
I know a little bit of Tahitian; it's very similar to Hawai‘ian. Do you have any specific questions?
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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-03-14, 15:02

What are the best textbooks (in English or French) for learning the Tahitian language?

Thank you!
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-12, 17:49

I see now there's a post about the Tahitian language in this forum. I hadn't seen that before.
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby shprakh » 2013-02-01, 19:25

Is Tahitian the most spoken Polynesian language? How similar are Tahitian and Maori?

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Re: The Polynesian-Language Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-02-09, 23:26

Samoan is the most spoken (370000 speakers), then Tongan (126000) then Tahitian (124000). Tahitian and Maori have many features in common, but I've read that the most similar to Tahitian is Cook Island Maori (also known as Rarotongan).

Here you can see the genealogical tree of the Polynesian languages:

http://www.farevanaa.pf/arbre.php
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)


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