Hawaiian Discussion

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culúrien
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Hawaiian Discussion

Postby culúrien » 2006-10-01, 2:35

I noticed the class was getting a little cluttered with good posts about Hawaiʻian, but off topic considering the nature of the course. So this is a place where you can field any questions you have, or anything you want to talk about including culture, off topic questions about the language, etc.

note: this is only in english for the sake of clarity :P
Iʻll start:

1.What is the state of Hawaiʻian in Hawaiʻi?
استیسی

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Postby Nero » 2006-10-01, 13:06

Celebrian for some reason (probably my bad computer) I can't see the Glottal stop in Hawai`i or Hawai`ian.
I can see them in the forum name and Mamo's posts.


According to Ethnologue:
1,000. 500 with Ni'ihau Island connections, another 500 in their 70s or 80s (1995 Laina Wong Univ. of Hawaii). 8,000 can speak and understand it (1993 Keith Haugen). In 1900 there were 37,000 first-language speakers (1995 Honolulu Advertiser).

I believe it's still very popular. I have a friend who was born speaking Hawaiian and English, but he's forgotten most of the Hawaiian :(
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-10-01, 13:15

Only 8000 natives in the world?

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Postby Mamo » 2006-10-01, 13:20

Alcadras wrote:Only 8000 natives in the world?


No, there are 8,000 who understand it to some degree, but I think that the number has increased in the last few years. Tbere are even fewer native speakers, maybe in the hundreds.

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Postby Alcadras » 2006-10-01, 13:21

You're a native, aren't you? :roll:

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Postby Mamo » 2006-10-01, 13:38

Alcadras wrote:You're a native, aren't you? :roll:


No, I am not a native speaker. I learned it as a second language.

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Postby Nohola » 2006-10-01, 14:46

Ah, now I see this post after I did respond to Mamo quite a bit in depth on other things, but related to the language however I felt I was leading it astray. :)

In any case, that 8,000 figure is an odd number. And ethnologue has not updated their number of speakers. Nearly 5 years ago I had emailed Dr. William Wilson who was one of the people who spearheaded the immersion school programs and we came up with the amount of 4,000 or so speakers of the Hawaiian language. That included manaleo (native speakers) and an estimated amount of students enrolled at the college and university levels of the Hawaiian language. The amount of students enrolled in the immersion schools when I had inquired was just under 3,000. Today however, that may be a different story and the number surely have increased.

And Mamo is right, as for manaleo, there are fewer speakers today.

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Postby Nohola » 2006-10-01, 14:50

Here are some links to hear Hawaiian and see them (mostly natives from Niihau) speak.

http://ahapunanaleo.org/images/leihulu_h_r.mov

It is part of 'Aha Punana Leo and although their online store is no longer available, there is a link there to their catalog (pdf) and you can order DVDs, videos, and books, etc. from them.

http://ahapunanaleo.org/

Here's the store link.

http://www.ahapunanaleo.org/storefront.html

UH Hilo is advertising their online classes. Kinda expensive, but if you really want to go through with it....

http://ahapunanaleo.org/papa.htm

I personally don't like language learning online UNLESS it involves hearing the language being spoken simultaneously. So for the serious learnings, you may want to consider that.

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Postby Nohola » 2006-10-01, 16:46

Well, since the topic is about the Hawaiian language, let's give a brief history of the language starting from recent times. But from a personal point of view. I'll try to do my best to keep it brief.

My grandmother did not teach Hawaiian to her children because like many in her generation, they were led to believe that with English was the best way to excel. Many people of the following generation did not learn it and till today don't speak it. In the 70s however there were many changes and it is then that I got to experience these changes.

In 1983 or so a small group of people who learned Hawaiian at the University of Hawaii realized that although they learned Hawaiian, there were hardly anyone else to converse with. They could teach their children but that would mean speaking Hawaiian only in the home. They looked to the Maori immersion schools as an example and followed that model and created Puanana Leo where preschoolers were taught all in the Hawaiian language. It was a big change compared to 1900 where they began ushering out the Hawaiian language as a medium in the schools and replaced it with English.

It was then that the amount of speakers grew. Of course they realized that because there weren't many speakers to begin with, the lack of Hawaiian language teachers would be a problem as far as educating the students who were now entering kindergarten. So they began teaching people like my uncle's wife who has been teaching for decades to learn Hawaiian so that they could teach their course in Hawaiian. As the number of students grew in these immersion schools, more demands for teachers and funds, etc. were required. Although there is still a current struggle as far as funds go, they still manage to survive.

In 1999 they had the very first students graduating from the immersion schools. And now, the University of Hilo has their Hawaiian language portion known as Kahaka'ulaoke'elikolani.

For me personally, I had to undergo not one, but 2 orthographical changes. I feel comfortable writing in any way really. And many in my generation have sent their children to the immersion schools and the schools encourage the parents to learn Hawaiian so that the children will not be limited to speaking Hawaiian only while at school but also at home. Many of those I know (like some of my own relatives) have learned a decent conversational level.

I'm also proud to say I have relatives in the immersion school programs who, like myself one day, make a difference and help perpetuate the language.

That was the brief version. If you have questions about the old days, orthography changes since the arrival of missionaries, etc., you can ask.

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Postby Christophers » 2006-10-01, 16:53

Nohola wrote:For me personally, I had to undergo not one, but 2 orthographical changes.


Can you give an example of this?

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Postby Nohola » 2006-10-01, 17:14

Christophers wrote:
Nohola wrote:For me personally, I had to undergo not one, but 2 orthographical changes.


Can you give an example of this?

--Chris


In the book that my Aunty Kauwila used in our class, you saw things like this:

mawaho
maluna
'oia
kauwa
molowa
hana ia
olelo ia

and a few others I can't think off hand. Today they write them like this:

ma waho
ma luna
'o ia
kauã (sorry, using a tilde since easier for me now)
moloã
'õlelo 'ia
hana 'ia

Only in old writings which for most part they were getting away from and began writing books w/ the newest orthography of which I was learning, did I see things like:

hoomanao iho la (ho'omana'o ihola)
haneri makahiki (haneli makahiki)
hana'i (hana 'ia ai)

That last one will throw off many and I do recall seeing that in the old Hawaiian newspapers, but it may have been an earlier year because I don't recall seeing that often in the newspapers, but definitely in the bible. The other examples above that however I have seen. Most of the changes I saw was basically a separation of the...do I dare say morphemes? :) In any case, those were minor. Like a pau vs. apau. I still don't know which one they are using today. I believe it's the one separated, but that one is one I definitely have seen go through 2 changes.

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Postby Mamo » 2006-10-02, 10:12

Indeed, there is a difference between older orthography and today's orthography. In the example below, the top paragraph is the orthography used in the Bible, and the lower is written with the current orthography.

Eia ka mooolelo no ka lani a me ka honua i ka wa i hanaia'i ia mau mea, i ka la a Iehova a ke Akua i hana'i i ka honua a me ka lani,
5 A me na mea kanu a pau o ka mahinaai, i ka wa aole ia maloko o ka honua, a me na launahele a pau o ke kula mamua o kona ulu ana: no ka mea, aole i hooua mai o Iehova ke Akua i ka ua maluna o ka honua, aole hoi he kanaka nana e mahi ka aina.

Eia ka mo‘o‘ōlelo no ka lani a me ka honua i ka wā i hana ‘ia ai ia mau mea, i ka lā a Iehova a ke Akua i hana ai i ka honua a me ka lani,
5 A me nā mea kanu a pau o ka mahina‘ai, i ka wā ‘a‘ole ia maloko o ka honua, a me nā launahele a pau o ke kula ma mua o kona ulu ‘ana: no ka mea, ‘a‘ole i ho‘oua mai ‘o Iehova ke Akua i ka ua ma luna o ka honua, ‘a‘ole ho‘i he kanaka nāna e mahi ka ‘āina.

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Postby Aleco » 2007-11-23, 15:59

He 'ōlelo hawai'i hana nui :? 'A'ole 'ōlelo au he 'ōlelo hawai'i... Kala mai ia'u, akā 'a'ole kōkua au...

He puke wehewehe 'ōlelo maika'i kēia

Is this correct? I wrote it around a year ago, so I bet it is totally off tracks :lol:
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Postby Aleco » 2007-12-31, 16:54

No one knows?
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Postby Nero » 2008-01-01, 4:01

NO SORRY, MAMO LEFT A FEW MONTHS AGO DUE TO A FIGHT WITH RIKI
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Postby Aleco » 2008-01-01, 10:03

Whaaa!?! :shock: He did!? MAN! :(
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Postby Nohola » 2008-01-01, 14:30

Aleco wrote:Whaaa!?! :shock: He did!? MAN! :(

I just read the topic that probably caused it.
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E hoi e pee i ke opu weuweu me he moho la. E ao o hai ka pua o ka mauu ia oe

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Postby Aleco » 2008-01-01, 21:07

Aleco wrote:He 'ōlelo hawai'i hana nui :? 'A'ole 'ōlelo au he 'ōlelo hawai'i... Kala mai ia'u, akā 'a'ole kōkua au...

He puke wehewehe 'ōlelo maika'i kēia

Is this correct? I wrote it around a year ago, so I bet it is totally off tracks :lol:

Nohloa, do you get this then?
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Postby Nohola » 2008-01-02, 2:49

Aleco wrote:
Aleco wrote:He 'ōlelo hawai'i hana nui :? 'A'ole 'ōlelo au he 'ōlelo hawai'i... Kala mai ia'u, akā 'a'ole kōkua au...

He puke wehewehe 'ōlelo maika'i kēia

Is this correct? I wrote it around a year ago, so I bet it is totally off tracks :lol:

Nohloa, do you get this then?

I'm not good with these "he" sentences. I suck at it. In fact, I always used to ask my classmates about it and we were all in the same boat.

Anyway, I have to ask first if this is what you're trying to say.

He 'ōlelo hawai'i hana nui - Not sure if you're trying to say that the Hawaiian language is a lot of work?

'A'ole 'ōlelo au he 'ōlelo hawai'i - if you're trying to say "I don't speak Hawaiian" or "I don't speak the Hawaiian language", you can say 'a'ole au 'olelo hawai'i.

Kala mai ia'u, akā 'a'ole kōkua au - are you trying to say that you couldn't (or can't) help?
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Postby Aleco » 2008-01-02, 10:15

Yeah, I think those are right :oops: :lol:
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