haitian creole language learning

snowdahlia
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Postby snowdahlia » 2005-12-29, 22:27

Hi. I'm looking to learn as much as I can about Creole. I've been to Haiti a couple of times and am helping to equip a small community library in a neighborhood outside Port au Prince. I'm taking the Pimsluer course on Creole but could use some more help. I look forward to learning what I can here :)

greg-fr
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Postby greg-fr » 2005-12-30, 15:09

toksave : bravo pour cette initiative !

Do you know X-SAMPA ? You may find it here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA.

Is KA <kreyòl aiysyen> pronounced [kRejOlajsjEn] or differently ?

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Postby snowdahlia » 2006-01-11, 14:30

I wanted to let everyone know about a little booklet I bought on my last trip to Haiti. It provides side-by-side translations of words and sentences in Creole, English and French, and is quite comprehensive. I've found it helpful in understanding the placement of articles, especially, and in building my vocabulary. Pronunciation remains a problem, though.

The booklet is called Franse ak Angle: San Traka e San Dlo Nan Je, and it's by Deslande Rincher, who apparently has a small publishing company in Forest Hills, NY. It's definitely worth getting if you can find it.

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ego
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Postby ego » 2006-01-11, 16:04

Kreyol seems wonderful, I can hardly resist. But I would need more info on pronunciation. Has anyone of you any online samples of spoken Kreyol?

Toksave as I understood the final -an is nasal. So if we add the article an to a word ending in -an, we have two nasal syllables one after another? This seems even harder than French :roll:

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ego
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Postby ego » 2006-01-12, 13:27

Also, does Kreyol maintain the French j pronunciation? I remember I had seen in an inscription in Seychelles Creole the word jardin written as "zarden"

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Postby toksave » 2006-01-13, 0:41

sorry for not responding earlier, very busy...
ego yes you would end up having two nasalized sounds after another, and i agree it is slitely harder than french...lol, and yes creole maintains the french "j" in the word:
jadinye = gardener
janm = never
joudui = today

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Postby toksave » 2006-01-13, 1:00

lesson continuation
for those who are familiar with tokpisin and/or papiamentu, you may notice that they use words to express tense instead of changing the verb. in creole there are these uses too.

for example:
i see a man = mwen we youn moun
i saw a man = mwen te we youn moun
i will see a man = mwen ta we youn moun
i see a man (regularly,habitualy) = mwen konnen we youn moun

*to show progresiveness, just combine mwen with ap and it becomes map*

i'm seeing a man = map we youn moun
(that can be done with li,ou,nou)
li = lap
ou = wap
nou = nap

when you say in english "i'm going to (do something)"
in creole, you would say for example:

i'm going to watch tv = map pral gade televisyon
(you would use "pral")

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ego
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Postby ego » 2006-01-13, 13:39

What about words ending in -anm, like janm. I understand this nm symbolises something more odd than a n and then a m. Is the "n" symbolising the nasalisation? In other words is anm read as a m after a nasalised a?

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ego
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Postby ego » 2006-01-13, 14:30

This is a test of Kreyol for beginners. I thought you might enjoy it :)

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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2006-01-13, 14:45

I was bored, so I decided to do the test, though I haven't cared for this language, yet. :D French definitely helps. ;)

You scored 76 % overall.

PART I: Fill in the Blank
You scored 60 % on this section.

PART II: Word Translation
You scored 60 % on this section.

PART III. Pick the Haitian Creole Translation
Congratulations! You had a perfect score!

PART IV: Learn Your Numbers!
Congratulations! You had a perfect score!

PART V. Match the English Translation
You scored 60 % on this section.


hbheather
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Pronunciation

Postby hbheather » 2006-03-20, 18:09

Haiti ~ Ayiti ~ ah-yee-tee

a - auh (o in lot)
e - ay (1st 1/2 of long a in day)
è - eh (e in let)
i - ee (ee in seed)
o - o (1st 1/2 of long o in go)
ò - (o in or)
ay - i (i in ice)
ou - oo (o in move)

The letter "u" is only used in the "ou" combination

----- Nasal Sounds -----

an - un in bunny nasalized -omitting 2nd n sound
(I like to think "uh" nasalized)
examp: Jan (John)
en - en in enjoy nasalized -shorten sound of the n
(I like to think "eh" nasalized)
examp: mwen (me, I)
on - on in don't nasalized
examp: savon (soap)

----- Some Consonants -----

ch - sh in ship
g - g in good
j - s in measure
s - s in soft
w - w in wind
y - y in yes

"c" and "h" are only used in the "ch" combination

Other letters sound the same as in English

Again... Creole Made Easy by Wally R. Turnbull
is and AWESOME book! And there are pronunciation CDs and a workbook to go along with his series.

Have a good day everyone! :)

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nettchelobek1
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Postby nettchelobek1 » 2006-05-30, 5:23

where are the other lessons?

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Postby M@! » 2006-07-27, 19:25

More lessons, souple?

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Alcadras
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-28, 19:37

Do we practice here or in another topic?
(Burada mı pratik yapıcaz yoksa diğer topic altında mı?)

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Postby M@! » 2006-07-28, 19:40

Maybe we'll let this topic be for lessons mainly and post our first rubbish in some other thread. :lol:

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Alcadras
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-28, 19:42

Okay,then open a thread for our rubbish.
and you'll start to make rubbish,first :lol:

Tamam o zaman saçmalıklarımız için bir konu açve ilk önce sen saçmalamaya başlayacaksın :lol:

M@!
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Postby M@! » 2006-07-28, 19:51

Sure, :lol:! In a minute!

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I translated something

Postby Noz » 2006-12-24, 0:21

I wrote the following/or cited the following in French and decided to translate it into Haitian Creole for fun. Can you correct any errors I've made in my translation? Thank you

French:
Je lui ai demandé ce qu’il avait. Il m’a dit qu’il avait eu une bagarre avec un type qui lui cherchait des histoires. « C’est pas que je suis méchant, mais je suis vif.
Raymond de L’Étranger par Albert Camus

Cela est une phrase qui est prononcée à Meursault par son voisin Raymond qui a une tendance à la violence. Il ne l’a pas parce qu’il est particulièrement méchant mais afin de se sentir vivant. Sa vie est pleine de choses qui ne sont guère acceptées en société.


Haitian Creole:
Mwen te mande l kisa li t’ap gen. Li te di mwen ki li te gen youn batay ansanm avèk youn nèg ki t’ap chache li akòz de trouble. « Se pa ki mwen mechan, men mwen vivan.
Raymond de La Etranje pa Albert Camus

Se youn fraz ki se di Meursault pa vwazen Raymond li ki gen youn abitid de batay. Li pa gen l paske li patikilyeman mechan men pou santi vivan. Vi li plen de bagay ki pa se aksept n sosyete.

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Sisyphe
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Re: I translated something

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-12-25, 3:07

Not gospel truth or anything, but I would say:

M mande li kisa l'gen.* Li di'm gen yon batay ak** yon nèg*** ki kon chache li [akòz de trouble.] (I'm not familiar with this expression in French or Haïtian Créole...) « M pa mechan****, di'l, m vivan ye.
Raymond de L'Étranger par Albert Camus

Fraz sila a fèt di nan Meursault pa vwazen li ki rele Raymond - li gen abitid de batay. Li pa gen'l paske li patikilyeman mechan - se sèlmen grasa anvi li santi vivan. Vi li plen de bagay ki raman (fèt) aksepte nan sosyete.

* It is fine to say this, but it would be code-switching with French technically. 'kisa pwoblem li' is more Créolized. :wink:
** 'Ak' also sounds more Créolized - I even use it in French sometimes. :P
***Nèg=mec
**** the 'se pa ki mwen mechan...' construction is just too French-sounding - I changed it for this reason.
A few more notes:
-Ki is virtually unncessary in most practical situations. I will use it if I am talking to a Francophone who wants to hear Créole but still be able to understand it - with a few modifications, such as the 'ki', it's quite understandable to native French speakers.
-I don't know a rule, but you cannot always use 'youn' for the indefinite article - most of the times actually, it is 'yon' and not 'youn'.
-The passive is very, very rarely used in Haïtian Créole. It sounds awkward to my ears. If you insist on using it, then you must use 'fèt' for it. :)
This is quite good - how long have you been learning Haïtian Créole?

Your only real errors are in the particles. You do not use t'ap correctly. If you want to convey the French imperfect, use 'kon' 't'ap' is more like 's.o. used to do s.th.', if that makes sense to you. I have mentioned the use of the passive and the corresponding particle above as well. Also as I said before, my revision is not gospel truth. :P I've grown up in the Diaspora - never been to Haïti in my life. :bittercry: Good luck and hope to see you here soon! :wink:
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