papiamentu language learning

Kaminotsukai
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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby Kaminotsukai » 2008-09-11, 19:36

Segun mi bo no a compronde kiko mi tawata kiermen.
accent in spelling, not in speech! E "`" ariba e letternan.
Accento cu ta ser scirbi riba letter pa indica emphasis, no accento dialectal.

dyjohen

Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby dyjohen » 2008-09-11, 22:01

An ok thanks for explaining that. So you meant the other accent :P
Porta otro biaha bo por reply den ingles paso hope hende no lo sa kiko bo a cab'i skirbi. Of bo por skirbie den dos lengua. BTW very nice having another aruban on here. It was lonely there for a while ;)

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xadonis_chinitox
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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby xadonis_chinitox » 2008-10-10, 0:16

Hi there,

Papamiento is a very interesting laguage, It reminded me a known creole dialect here in the Philippines called Chabacano. I would like to learn this beautiful language

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Translation of small text

Postby geonames » 2009-04-04, 17:41

Hi all,

I'm running a website about (mostly) geographical names in several languages ( http://www.geonames.de ) and am looking for a translation of the introduction phrase into Papiamento:

"The countries of the world in their own languages and scripts; with official names, capitals, flags, coats of arms, administrative divisions, national anthems, and translations of the countries and capitals into many languages"

Thank you all in advance and enjoy your weekend, or what's left of it.
Werner
my website: http://www.geonames.de
Gib mir die Kraft Dinge zu ändern, die ich ändern kann; die Gelassenheit Dinge zu akzeptieren, die ich nicht ändern kann; und die Weisheit den Unterschied zu erkennen.

mbonaire
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translation help please

Postby mbonaire » 2010-08-02, 17:09

an some one translate this for papiamento to english for me please, thanks

ba hanja e sunchi ku ma manda pabo via jen of mike...?

si ma hanjele di jen, paso mi ta kere mike a warda nan pasu mes:P Kontaaa einan?

ahinda nos ta warda mike

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Has anyone ever heard of this song (Nan no por kibra nos)?

Postby arpee » 2010-10-07, 17:49

What does 'nan no por kibra nos' mean? Does it mean "He will not break us up"?

I love the part when he say "E lus te den mi man" something something "vai". What is he sayings at this part?

Here it is (skip to 7:20)

DJ Libz
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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby DJ Libz » 2011-04-17, 23:42

Hey I'm new here,

I have a friend in Rotterdam and he's of Aruban descent. His parents are trying to teach him Papiamentu but I'd love to practise and learn with you UniLang members too :)

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Abavagada
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Djis un pensamentu

Postby Abavagada » 2011-05-02, 17:02

Found this today, if anyone is interested.

Seems to be a homemade magazine in Papiamento.

http://www.djisunpensamentu.com/
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Parleremo - Where Languages Live! http://www.parleremo.org

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Jnɨɨñɨ
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Any Dictionary?

Postby Jnɨɨñɨ » 2011-11-10, 21:29

Where can I get a Papiamentu dictionary?
It seems to be really hard to find, even in the web.
I mean a Dictionary, not a translator nor ny software, but a book.

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Jnɨɨñɨ
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Re: Any Dictionary?

Postby Jnɨɨñɨ » 2011-11-14, 22:17

Ya no importá. Mi mes a haña un dikshonario!
Pero parse ku aki no tin muchu hende :?
Ningun hende skribi nada :roll:

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Jnɨɨñɨ
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THE PASSIVE

Postby Jnɨɨñɨ » 2011-11-21, 22:11

How is the passive form of verbs formed in Papiamentu?

I've found things like:
"The stone was pulled" = "Nan a hala e piedra"
"The name Jesus was pronounced Yeshua or possibly Yehoshua." = "Nan a pronunsiá e nòmber Hesus kisas komo Yeshua òf komo Yehoshua."

So that's one way to form the passive.
But I'm not sure whether a different passive form is being used in the following video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qStYlO0-mwk

min. 2:06 it says:
No tawata tin e interes di parte di gobierno [...] para establesé un gramatika real di papiamento. [...] no tin un gramatika [...] no se a formalisá.


It says: "No se a formalisá"
To me it sounds like: "It hasn't been formalized"
Spanish: "No se ha formalizado"

That would be a better way to form the passive, but is it so?

"The house has been sold" would be: "Nan a bende e kas", or according to this: "Se a bende e kas".
But what is the correct form?

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Jnɨɨñɨ
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Any help with these PAPIAMENTU words?

Postby Jnɨɨñɨ » 2012-02-20, 19:52

I haven't found any of these words in the dictionaries I've got, any help?:

tool
toy
seal
snail
snake
straw (both the farm one and the one 4 drinking)
strawberry
supper
dinnner
pea
meat (is there any difference with "flesh"?)
erase
eraser
feather
pen
duster
sword
skate
jacket
pillow
whirlpool
twister
galaxy
space
armchair
litter
shelf
tire
shutter
chimney
step sister, step brother
anus
testicles
buttocks
eyelash
toe
ago (as in: "two weeks/years/days AGO")
but (or 'rather', as in: "I'm not lazy, BUT I was born tired")

THANK YOU!

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E}{pugnator
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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby E}{pugnator » 2012-07-27, 15:31

I'm not sure you guys have run into this website before:

http://www.papiamento.aw
Learning Georgian, Mandarin Chinese, Russian and Papiamentu from scratch. Trying to brush up my Norwegian up to an advanced level.

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E}{pugnator
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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby E}{pugnator » 2012-08-02, 21:11

Guys, I'm really considering heating up this forum by posting learning notes from the Papiamentu Textbook. Who wants to take part in the discussion?

Also, I had an idea: if only we could get the dialogues from other creole textbooks translated into Papiamentu...I'm considering doing a book like Le Créole Sans Peine for Papiamentu. It woudn't be so hard, notes would be minimal and the repertoire would expand a lot. Of course the dialogues would have to be changed, I mean it just as a reference because the context is similar (caribbean life etc.).
Learning Georgian, Mandarin Chinese, Russian and Papiamentu from scratch. Trying to brush up my Norwegian up to an advanced level.

ffrench
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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby ffrench » 2012-08-22, 0:54

I don't want it to seem like there is no interest, so while I may not be able to dedicate myself to learning Papiamentu, I want to pipe up here. It's one of my biggest linguistic interests and the Creoles forum needs some life in any case.

El Viento
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My first post: Santana and the passive.

Postby El Viento » 2012-12-16, 2:50

Hello everyone

This is my first post here at unlilang and since I'm a native Papiamentu speaker I though this might be the place to start. I will begin by answering some questions I read on the first and last page.

NOTE: I haven't followed any formal papiamentu or language courses after high school. I'm currently studying engineering in the Netherlands and the only language theory I've had since high school is some technical writing classes. So I will always try to make sure that what I'm posting is correct, but I can't guarantee it.

Ok. The first question is a question from "E}{pugnator" about an article on the first page (question on the second page). Its why is the word santana used for cemetery? This actually always puzzled me, until I found out. I'm still not sure its true, seems though, its more of a story.
One of the first Spanish villages the dutch occupied on Curaçao was Santa Anna (Now Willemstad). In response the Spanish organized a violent counter attacked in which allot of the dutch settlers died (Spain and the Netherlands where at war at the time). After the Dutch regained control back and renamed the settlement the name of Santa Anna reminded them of what had happened or more probable, the cemetery at the former Santa Anna kept its name (As the basilica also did) and eventually Santa Anna or santana became synonymous to cemetery and finally replaced it.


The second question asked by "Jnɨɨñɨ" on page 7 is about the passive form in Papiamentu.
"The house has been sold" would be: "Nan a bende e kas", or according to this: "Se a bende e kas".
But what is the correct form?

Short answer: Neither.
The first one is just the past. {Nan: They} {a bende: sold} {e: the} {kas: house}. The second one is kind of in the right direction, but still wrong. First, the word is not "se", iťs "ser", although "ser" is not the most commonly used word in this case, "wòrdu" is more common, but more on this later. Secondly the structure of the phrase is completely wrong.

Ok so, how is the passive done in Papiamentu?
Actually quite easy (as everything else in Papiamentu).

First the active phrase.
Eng: Martin sold the house.
Pap: Martin a bende e kas.

Now the passive.
Eng: The house was sold by Martin.
Pap: E kas a wòrdu bendé dor di Martin.
{E: The} {kas: house} {a wòrdu: to become} {bendé: sold} {dor di: by} Martin.

As you can see its simple and quite similar to English. In short you move the object (the house) in front of the verb (sold) and move the subject(Martin) behind the verb. Then you put a form of "to become" in front of the verb and finally add some emphasis on the last vowel in the verb ("bendé", note the acute accent on the second e).

You might have noticed that the verb "wòrdu" is not the usually used papiamentu verb for "to become" (bira). Instead you can consider "wòrdu" as a pacifier (pacifier seems the only word that fits). The reason is because the passive form is borrowed (big surprise) from dutch, from which an example is shown below.
"De huis werd verkocht door Martin."
Note the similarities. "Werd" is the past form of the dutch verb "worden", which you might have guessed by now means "to become".

As shown in Jnɨɨñɨ's example "wòrdu" is not the only pacifier. "Ser" (to be) and "keda" (to stay) are other pacifiers used by some people, although "wórdu" is the most commonly used, at least on Curaçao. I believe that "ser" is the most commonly used in Aruba, but I'm not sure. I hope there is an Aruban over here who can answer this. As far as I know there is no actual difference between them and you can just choose one and use it always. I would choose "wórdu" or "ser" since these are the ones I most commonly hear. I've only heard seniors using "Keda", meaning that it probably won't be used anymore.

And finally you can change the time of the passive by just changing the form of "to be" in front of the pacifier as you would normally do.

Examples:
Future (would)
The house would be sold by Martin.
E kas lo por ser bendé dor di Martin.

Future (will)
The house will be sold by Martin.
E kas tei wòrdu bendé dor di Martin.

Present
The house is sold by Martin.
E kas ta keda bendé dor di Martin.


Ok this was all for now. I hope you people enjoyed it, I'll try to post here more often i mi kera agradesé bosnan tur pa bosnan atenshon.
Last edited by El Viento on 2012-12-16, 3:54, edited 1 time in total.

El Viento
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Pacifiers

Postby El Viento » 2012-12-16, 3:50

Here I found an pdf with the possible origin for the three pacifiers, which by the way are apparently called "passivizing verbs". I will quote the paragraph here.

I argue that the wordu passive began as an interference feature in the Papiamentu of L1 Dutch speakers, and was later adopted by L1 Papiamentu speakers as a prestige form. Unconjugated ser is analyzed as a calque on the wordu passive consciously introduced by L1 Spanish speakers uncomfortable with the Dutch element in Papiamentu, and unaware of the meaning of wordu in Dutch independent of its use in the passive construction. The keda passive is also a calque on the wordu passive, but this one, I argue, was introduced by L1 Papiamentu speakers bilingual in Spanish. (Spanish queda + PAST PARTICIPLE means ‘become X’.) Linguistic information, sociohistorical information, and statistical analyses supporting these hypotheses are presented and discussed.


I actually agree with him. To bad I couldn't find the whole report. The pdf only contains one page.

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/Events/PLC/plc30/abstracts/70.pdf

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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby E}{pugnator » 2012-12-16, 20:52

Thanks a lot, El Vento!!!

I'll see if I can try discussing grammar through some news articles here.

I see the passive form has more of Dutch influence than Romance influecen.

So, you use Bonaire/Curaçao orthography? I like it better because it is more phonetic, but I seem to have read more texts about Aruban.
Learning Georgian, Mandarin Chinese, Russian and Papiamentu from scratch. Trying to brush up my Norwegian up to an advanced level.

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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby El Viento » 2012-12-16, 22:14

Yea. When the islands decided to standardize the language Curaçao and Bonaire chose to write phonetically, since this is the simplest. Aruba decided to do it etymologically. But since a big part of the words are germanic even though most are iberic this brought complications. (You might have also noticed that in papiamentu germanic words are more common than in papiamento).

For example we take two words one from spanish and one from dutch.
Spa: Cocina
Aru: Cushina
C/B: Kushina

Du: boek
Aru: boeki
C/B: buki

By following etymological rules the word should be written as shown above in papiamento. But still, I notice that sometimes Arubans will tend to write the word phonetically following more of a spanish rule. They will end up writing "buci".

And I think you might be reading more text from C/B than you are aware. For example if that article on the first page really is from the "la prensa" newspaper, than its Curaçoan and not Aruban as the poster said. I searched for a list of aruban newspapers and la prensa does not appear. But it's one of Curaçao's most popular newspapers.

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Re: papiamentu language learning

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-02-04, 18:29

Sometimes I am confused as for whether a text is really in the Bonairean/Curaçaoan orthography, that's why I usually just assume it is Aruban. Is there more than one orthography in Bonaire and Curaçao? Maybe an older one? What about Aruban? Can we consider that only those two orthographies exist? (If that's the case, that's not something hard to deal with).
Learning Georgian, Mandarin Chinese, Russian and Papiamentu from scratch. Trying to brush up my Norwegian up to an advanced level.


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