Are there Irish Gaelic speakers around? :)

Moderator:kevin

Willem
Are there Irish Gaelic speakers around? :)

Postby Willem » 2005-02-19, 10:14

Me and 6 fellow students are doing a linguistics project in which we have to 'disassemble' the Gaelic language.

We need to translate 20 short sentences, and I was wondering if someone here could help us :D

These are the sentences:
01 The king found some books.
02 He did not read any books to his son.
03 The three soldiers stirred the soup.
04 They will stirr it for three hours.
05 Every soldier was old and ugly.
06 The castle is on a hill near a lake.
07 Antonio has lived in Venice for three years now.
08 No one arrived at the castle yesterday.
09 Most of Prospero's books will arrive next week.
10 The kind man gave a book to his daughter.
11 She will put the book on a chair.
12 Macbeth may find them in the forest (assume that them refers to people).
13 Falstaff drank a glass of beer.
14 Falstaff drank because he was thirsty.
15 Miranda knew that Prospero had many books.
16 Hamlet said that his mother was disloyal.
17 Portia told Shylock that he should be kind to Antonio.
18 Macbeth tried to kill the king.
19 Macbeth tried to meet a witch.
20 Prospero has promised to give her all the books.

User avatar
DelBoy
Posts:3814
Joined:2004-04-22, 12:55
Real Name:Darrach Ó Murchú
Gender:male
Location:i nDún Éideann, in Albain; as Áth Cliath in Éirinn (in Edinburgh, Scotland; from Dublin, Ireland)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby DelBoy » 2005-02-19, 12:42

Hi!
I could help you out, but if this is for homework or an assignment, why don't you try them first and I can help you with what you've done?

:wink:
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

User avatar
Junesun
Posts:909
Joined:2002-06-28, 14:15
Real Name:Judith Meyer
Gender:female
Country:DEGermany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Postby Junesun » 2005-02-19, 12:55

"Disassemble" as in this kind of riddle? I love such tasks...

Willem

Postby Willem » 2005-02-20, 19:01

To Delboy:
The problem is that we do not know anything about Gaelic. When we have the translations we are going to work out the lexicon and the grammar.

I agree that it would be too easy to sit back and let someone else translate these sentences, so I'll speak with the rest of the group, maybe we can do something in return (send a nice bottle of whiskey or something :)

I'll get back on this. Thanks so far for wanting to help out :)

User avatar
DelBoy
Posts:3814
Joined:2004-04-22, 12:55
Real Name:Darrach Ó Murchú
Gender:male
Location:i nDún Éideann, in Albain; as Áth Cliath in Éirinn (in Edinburgh, Scotland; from Dublin, Ireland)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby DelBoy » 2005-02-20, 21:21

Willem wrote:To Delboy:
The problem is that we do not know anything about Gaelic. When we have the translations we are going to work out the lexicon and the grammar.

I agree that it would be too easy to sit back and let someone else translate these sentences, so I'll speak with the rest of the group, maybe we can do something in return (send a nice bottle of whiskey or something :)

I'll get back on this. Thanks so far for wanting to help out :)


Oops, sorry I misunderstood :lol: I thought this was for an Irish class (I see now you wrote that it was for a linguistics class - I really should read things properly before replying! :lol: )
I'd be happy to help you out!

01 Fuair an rí roinnt leabhar.
02 Níor léigh sé aon leabhar dá mhac
03 Mheasc an triúr saighdiúir an t-anraith
04 Meascfaidh siad ar feadh trí uair é
05 Bhí gach saighdiúir sean agus gránna
06 Tá an caisleán ar chnoc in aice locha
07 Tá Antonio ina chónaí i Venice le trí bhliain anuas
08 Níor tháinig aon duine chuig an caisleán inné.
09 Tiocfaidh an formhór leabhar Prospero an seachtain seo chugainn
10 Thug an fear cineálta leabhar dá iníon
11 Cuirfidh sí an leabhair ar chathaoir
12 B'fhéidir go bhfaighidh Macbeth sa choill iad.
13 D'ól Falstaff gloinne leanna
14 D'ól Falstaff mar go raibh tart air
15 Bhí a fhios ag Miranda go raibh a lán leabhar ag Prospero
16 Dúirt Hamlet go raibh a mháthair mídhílis
17 Dúirt Portia do Shylock gur cheart dó bheith cineálta d'Antonio
18 Rinne Macbeth iarracht an rí a mharú
19 Rinne Macbeth iarracht le cailleach a bhualadh
20 Gheall Prospero na leabhair go léir a thabhairt di.
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

Willem

Postby Willem » 2005-02-21, 9:06

Thank you very much! :D

I'll post the url of our webpage when we'll have finished the project :)

User avatar
DelBoy
Posts:3814
Joined:2004-04-22, 12:55
Real Name:Darrach Ó Murchú
Gender:male
Location:i nDún Éideann, in Albain; as Áth Cliath in Éirinn (in Edinburgh, Scotland; from Dublin, Ireland)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby DelBoy » 2005-02-21, 20:23

No problem!
It would be great to see your project once its complete! Keep us posted!
:wink:
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

Willem

Postby Willem » 2005-03-24, 11:05

Our project is almost done!
You can find the website over here:
http://www.larixk.nl/gaelic

It's still under construction, but should be finished very soon.

User avatar
DelBoy
Posts:3814
Joined:2004-04-22, 12:55
Real Name:Darrach Ó Murchú
Gender:male
Location:i nDún Éideann, in Albain; as Áth Cliath in Éirinn (in Edinburgh, Scotland; from Dublin, Ireland)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby DelBoy » 2005-03-28, 20:13

Hi Willem,
your site looks great! could you tell us a bit more about the project?

On some of the literal translations on the sentences page, however, there are a few errors:

(I hope you dont mind me pointing some of them out, I don't want to take away from the work you put into it, which must have been loads since you said you didn't know any Irish!)

They will stirr it for three hours.
Meascfaidh siad ar feadh trí uair é
will stirr they for three hours it

Antonio has lived in Venice for three years now.
Tá Antonio ina chónaí i Venice le trí bhliain anuas
Is Antonio in his living in Venice with three years down

No one arrived at the castle yesterday.
Níor tháinig aon duine chuig an caisleán inné
not came one person to(ward) the castle yesterday

Falstaff drank because he was thirsty.
D'ól Falstaff mar go raibh tart air
drank Fallstaff because that there was thirst on him

Macbeth tried to kill the king.
Rinne Macbeth iarracht an rí a mharú
Made Macbeth try the king to kill


Macbeth tried to meet a witch.
Rinne Macbeth iarracht le cailleach a bhualadh
Made Macbeth try with witch to meet


Prospero has promised to give her all the books.
Gheall Prospero na leabhair go léir a thabhairt di
promised Prospero the books all to give to her


Also, on you lexicon page there are a number of errors too:

The nouns that you have beginning with a consonant and then a 'h' should not have this 'h' (like máthair) as this is a grammatical mutation of the word.

In your Verbs section, 'a' is not the verb 'to be', its actually not a verb at all, just an auxilliary word which does not translate to anything in English in this circumstance (it can also mean 'his', 'her', 'their', 'that', 'which')
To be is translated as 'Bí'

Some other of the verbs you have listed are in various tenses, such as 'a bhualadh' - this is actually the auxilliary word and the verbal noun of the verb 'buail' - 'hit'
To meet is actually 'buail le'
'Dúirt' is the past tense of the verb 'deir' - to say
'fhios' (or 'fios', without the mutation) is also not a verb, but a noun meaning 'knowledge', to know is translated as 'fios a bheith ag .... ar....' (lit: knowledge to be at .... on.....)

Gheall is also in the past tense - Geall is the 'infinitive' (Irish isnt big on infinitives, see 'to know' above! :lol: )

Iarracht is also a noun, meaning 'an attempt', to try is 'iarracht a dhéanamh' - an attempt to make

'a mharú' is again the auxillary word and the verbal noun of the verb 'Maraigh' - to kill

Prepositions do not always translate very well between languages as they have different functions. You translated 'ar' as the english 'for', however it is closer to the English 'on', but it is used in Irish in some places where 'for' would be used in English, if you get me?
'ár' is actually the personal pronoun 'our'
'gen' is not a word, but I'm guessing you saw this in a dictionary - it means to use the genitive case of the noun (e.g. Leabhair - books, leabhar - of books)

Finally, in your 'Complementizers' section, 'go' means 'that' and 'raibh' is actually the past dependent form of the verb 'bí' - to be
'go raibh' - that was/ that were/ that there was

Great work so far, nonetheless!! I look forward to seeing the finished thing! :wink:
Last edited by DelBoy on 2005-03-30, 16:00, edited 1 time in total.
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

Willem

Postby Willem » 2005-03-30, 7:44

Hi

Thanks for all the corrections! It clarifies a lot of things.

The project is part of our course 'introduction to linguistics' at the university of Utrecht in the Netherlands. ( http://www.phil.uu.nl/%7Ekraf/it05/it05.html )

The course is part of the study CKI, which (if translated in english) stands for Cognitive Artificial Intelligence
( http://www.warande.net/~pixel/english/cki/wtcki.htm )

In this project we (group of 7) have to figure out a language of choice by dissecting translated sentences. How we would have the sentences translated was the biggest problem, so we're very happy you translated them all :)
The assignment is on http://www.phil.uu.nl/~kraf/it05/05projectit.html
The first part is in english, but it turns into dutch halfway down the page..

I do have one more question:
The word 'thabhairt' seems like some extra preposition. At least when i look up thabhairt on www.englishirishdictionary.com it seems that way. Am i right or totally wrong? :)

Slán,
Willem

Guest

Postby Guest » 2005-03-30, 15:54

Hi Willem,

that sounds really interesting!

T(h)abhairt is not a preposition, it is another of these 'verbal nouns' used in Irish for things like the Gerund, the continuous tenses, and sometimes the infinitive. it is basically a noun made out of the verb Tabhair, meaning 'to give'.
e.g.
Tabhair airgead - give money
Airgead a thabhairt - to give money (money to give)
Tá mé ag tabhairt airgid - I am giving money (I am at giving of money)

:wink:

User avatar
DelBoy
Posts:3814
Joined:2004-04-22, 12:55
Real Name:Darrach Ó Murchú
Gender:male
Location:i nDún Éideann, in Albain; as Áth Cliath in Éirinn (in Edinburgh, Scotland; from Dublin, Ireland)
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby DelBoy » 2005-03-30, 15:59

Sorry, that was me!
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

Willem

Postby Willem » 2005-03-31, 9:48

Ah, so it is a verbal noun :)
Thanks for clearing that up, I was confused by all the sentences with thabhairt (i looked it up with the 'h') on www.englishirishdictionary.com

It's nice to see some scots-gaelic too :)
The sentences do look very similar. But the pronunciation (irish vs scots) is probably very different.
And i guess that if you say 'tabhair' or 'toir' very fast you don't hear much difference :D
Maybe toir is just new spelling for tabhair? Or am i completely wrong on this one :D

We are going to correct our website, but it might take a few days. Everybody has to go over their part of the questions and everything will then be put toghether again.

DelBoy(not logged in)

Postby DelBoy(not logged in) » 2005-03-31, 15:34

Willem wrote:Ah, so it is a verbal noun :)
Thanks for clearing that up, I was confused by all the sentences with thabhairt (i looked it up with the 'h') on www.englishirishdictionary.com

It's nice to see some scots-gaelic too :)
The sentences do look very similar. But the pronunciation (irish vs scots) is probably very different.
And i guess that if you say 'tabhair' or 'toir' very fast you don't hear much difference :D
Maybe toir is just new spelling for tabhair? Or am i completely wrong on this one :D



Yeah that could be right - in Irish , tabhair is pronounced as 'toor'- looks a bit like Toir in Scottish Gaelic. How are they pronounced in Gaidhlig Daniel?

Willem

Postby Willem » 2005-03-31, 21:04

nice! 8) Maybe we can add the scots-gaelic sentences to our site for comparison.

I have one more question about the gloss of Irish sentence 20:
20 Gheall Prospero na leabhair go léir a thabhairt di.
promise+PAST+3SG Prospero the book+PL all to give to her

It seems that na = all and go = that, so why isn't the gloss:
20 Gheall Prospero na leabhair go léir a thabhairt di.
promise+PAST+3SG Prospero all book+PL (that are?) to give to her

Willem

Postby Willem » 2005-04-01, 7:49

Thanks! :)

My deepest apologies to Delboy for questioning his glosses :wink:


Return to “Celtic Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests