Moderator:kevin
Viridzen wrote:(Am I even welcome here anymore? Nevertheless.)
Viridzen wrote:I couldn't find a thread about the future of the Celtic languages. If there is one, feel free to delete this one if at all possible. All I could find was "Irish in 100 years", which doesn't include all the Celtic languages.
Viridzen wrote: Therefore, I decided I would like to talk about this.
I'm not going to bother posting my own opinions on this until others come along, because it's no use.
So... commence.
From what I've read, the Breton-speaking population, though reasonably large, is diffused over western Brittany and essentially has no place where it's the majority, and a lot of efforts to support or revive the language have been hampered by France's constitutional monolingualism.Ciarán12 wrote:I really don't know much about the situation of Breton and Welsh, but it seems that Breton has a (comparatively) large number of speakers but a rapidly aging population while Welsh seems to be the most stable (speakers of all ages).
Lazar Taxon wrote:From what I've read, the Breton-speaking population, though reasonably large, is diffused over western Brittany and essentially has no place where it's the majority, and a lot of efforts to support or revive the language have been hampered by France's constitutional monolingualism.
Levike wrote:Just my opinion:
If they won't stop trying to promote Irish
then eventually it'll become something like Hebrew today, so a few modifications here and there.
Levike wrote:And for the other Celtic languages, au revoir, they'll just die out.
Levike wrote:Why would people be forced to learn an old almost dead language
when they already have one, in which they can communicate.
I view it as an unnecessary measure to complicate our lives.
But then I don't know how the locals feel about it.
I personally would prefer my child to learn an important language like German or French.
I wouldn't support any revival.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
Levike wrote:Why would people be forced to learn an old almost dead language when they already have one, in which they can communicate.
I view it as an unnecessary measure to complicate our lives.
But then I don't know how the locals feel about it.
Of course I want them to learn both.Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:So you would not have your children learn Hungarian or Romanian?
As I said, I don't really know how they feel about it.Viridzen wrote:It's about national identity. People whose national identity and language are threatened try to keep it in any and every way, and feel strongly about it. This is how I am, as well as many others, about Pennsylvania German.
Viridzen wrote:
[flag=]ga[/flag] It said that the way it's taught in schools isn't very good, and most of the people who say they can speak actually can't.
Viridzen wrote:Also, not many people go to Gaelscoileanna, Irish immersion schools, and I'm assuming the schools are expensive.
Viridzen wrote:However, I think there is a lot of cultural pride in Ireland (from what I hear), and people wanting to distance themselves from the British, so they would probably also learn Irish; I think most of the people who said they could speak Irish who actually couldn't belong to this group.
Viridzen wrote:[flag=]gd[/flag] Scottish Gaelic is dying out fast and dwindling very much; also, since the Lowlands are primarily Scots-speaking (and perhaps more Anglo-Saxon culturally than the Gaels of the Highlands), they wouldn't have/want much to do with Scottish Gaelic.
Viridzen wrote:[flag=]gv[/flag] I actually think this language's future is promising. People are regaining their cultural identity in the Isle of Mann, which is also the smallest Celtic nation, making revival quicker. I also personally think the pronunciation is more logical, relating to the spelling, though, of course, it could be better.
Viridzen wrote:[flag=]cy[/flag] Also, the Welsh resisted the Anglo-Saxon invasion the longest (which is why it's not part of England, but its own nation)
Viridzen wrote:so they had more time to develop their language
Viridzen wrote:, and the language never went extinct or had its population reduced as much as the Gaelic languages.
Viridzen wrote:
[flag=]kw[/flag] I'm sad about this one. There are only 2000 speakers of it in all of Cornwall.
Viridzen wrote: Though it has a standard, not every Cornish speaker uses it. It's sad that a neighbourhood in Cornwall would, if they wanted to say "I'm proud of my Cornish heritage" (as an example), they'd say it and write it all different ways, and a lot of them would probably have to use English.
Viridzen wrote: If there's a standard used at schools and businesses, but a family uses a different version of Cornish at home with their child, then that child will basically have to re-learn their own native language to go to school or get a job. But, it's still relatively recent that people actually decided to get the revival going, so we'll see if people start to agree in the future.
Viridzen wrote:Oh, almost forgot:
I'm not sure. I don't think Gaulish will get a ton of proponents overnight, and very, very few people so far even know it's being revived. The Yahoo! discussion group for it isn't very active, either. But, I quite like it. I think should be revived, and whole-heartedly support it, as with all the other Celtic languages.
Levike wrote:@Ciarán12:
About the modifications thing:
I meant that people will in a degree try to simplify it.
For example maybe they'll change the word order to make it sound more natural to them.
Or the pronunciation to resemble English more.
Basically I'm saying that there is and will be too much influence on Irish.
Levike wrote:For the other ones, it's mainly because of English.
Why would people be forced to learn an old almost dead language
when they already have one, in which they can communicate.
Levike wrote:I view it as an unnecessary measure to complicate our lives.
Levike wrote:But then I don't know how the locals feel about it.
Levike wrote:I personally would prefer my child to learn an important language like German or French.
I wouldn't support any revival.
Levike wrote:
But if let's say someone spoke English all his life, from the minute he was born,
how would he feel attached to this wannabe revived language.
Wouldn't he feel more comfortable/represented by English?
Levike wrote:But if someone felt like teaching them Transylvanian German,
just to revive it or for any crazy cultural reasons, I would be totally opposed to that.
Ciarán12 wrote:They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Just because I didn't teach you a bunch of words?Anyway, to me that sounds like murdering a several thousand year old language, culture and identity for the sake if temporary prosperity. If I were your child and you had refused to pass on my heritage to me because you thought it was pointless I would disown you as my father.
As someone in that exact situation, absolutely not. I feel robbed of my heritage.
Does Magyarisation say something to you?If the language you spoke was the language imposed upon you by foreign invaders to your country who thought your ancestors and their culture was "primitive", "sub-human" even. Maybe if your history with them was characterised by centuries of violence committed against your people by the people who forced that language on your ancestors. Maybe you might feel different then.
Levike wrote:Ciarán12 wrote:They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Well, if you're not into languages, I doubt you want to learn more of them.
Especially one, only for cultural reasons.
Levike wrote:Just because I didn't teach you a bunch of words?
Levike wrote:So lemme understand, you spoke only and exclusively English
and were introduced to this supposed-to-be-revived language
and you feel that it's a very important part of your heritage
only because once a long time ago people used to speak it.
Levike wrote:Just because I didn't teach you a bunch of words?
Saim wrote:Levike, I think in the case of the Hungarian population of Transylvania they've been there for longer and they're mostly descended from Hungarian settles rather than Magyarised Romanians. This would be vaguely comparable to the "British" settler population of Northern Ireland who to this day identify little with Gaelic culture. Correct me if I'm wrong, but language shift started in Ireland I think in the 19th century when Hungarians were already established in Transylvania.
Ciarán12 wrote:Actually, lots of people go to Gaelscoileanna and there is always more demand than there are school places, so the trend is that they are speading. Also, they are not expensive as they are state-funded.
Ciarán12 wrote:Well, the Lowlanders would be primarily English-speaking now I would imagine, not Scots-speaking. Also, I don't get the impression that the lowland/highland divide is having a serious impact of the numbers of Anglophone Scottish people who take up Scottish Gaelic as a second language. I could be wrong though.
Ciarán12 wrote:Ha! No freaking way is Manx more logically spelt than the other Gaelic languages. Manx uses a sort of vaguely-based-on-English system and has inherited many of English's nonsensical spelling norms. Then it has had to go outside that to represent some features not present in English, and has completely omitted certain features that are present in the language form the spelling system entirely. It's awful.
Ciarán12 wrote:Resisted longer than who? All of the Celtic nations still have a nation to some degree, and if you're talking about political autonomy, then both Scotland and Ireland have more autonomy than Wales.
Ciarán12 wrote:What do you mean?
Ciarán12 wrote:Most of them would probably use English, but it's a remarkable improvement that any of them might use Cornish at all now. Also, I think the differences are mainly in the spelling, and I think that's sorted out now. I think the spelling differences that linger will fade out now that a standard has been established.
Ciarán12 wrote:I'm not sure there is anyone left with an sentimental attachment to that language or its culture. Are there any people left that still identify as Gaulish?
Ciarán12 wrote:Levike wrote:
But if let's say someone spoke English all his life, from the minute he was born,
how would he feel attached to this wannabe revived language.
Wouldn't he feel more comfortable/represented by English?
As someone in that exact situation, absolutely not. I feel robbed of my heritage.
But how can you feel connected to it, if it is not your mother-tongue.Viridzen wrote:I also feel "robbed of my heritage", just to offer another response to your question of how people feel about it.Ciarán12 wrote:As someone in that exact situation, absolutely not. I feel robbed of my heritage.
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