Elaine - Gaeilge

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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-28, 21:48

An Lon Dubh wrote:Indefinite qualifying nouns can also have this distinction, e.g.

Bróg cailín = A girl's shoe.
Bróg chailín = A girly shoe.

Which neatly refutes what you said above about nouns in the genitive "obey[ing] all the same rules [as adjectives] regarding lenition, eclipses, e.t.c.". If that were the case, this distinction shouldn't exist.
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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby An Lon Dubh » 2014-07-28, 21:56

linguoboy wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:Indefinite qualifying nouns can also have this distinction, e.g.

Bróg cailín = A girl's shoe.
Bróg chailín = A girly shoe.

Which neatly refutes what you said above about nouns in the genitive "obey[ing] all the same rules [as adjectives] regarding lenition, eclipses, e.t.c.". If that were the case, this distinction shouldn't exist.

I'm probably being dense here, but isn't cailín a possessive indefinite noun/indefinite head noun rather than an qualifying attributive noun in the first example?

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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-29, 17:11

An Lon Dubh wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:Indefinite qualifying nouns can also have this distinction, e.g.

Bróg cailín = A girl's shoe.
Bróg chailín = A girly shoe.

Which neatly refutes what you said above about nouns in the genitive "obey[ing] all the same rules [as adjectives] regarding lenition, eclipses, e.t.c.". If that were the case, this distinction shouldn't exist.

I'm probably being dense here, but isn't cailín a possessive indefinite noun/indefinite head noun rather than an qualifying attributive noun in the first example?

Okay, I think I understand the distinction you're drawing between "qualifying attributive nouns" and other sorts of noun modifiers, including possessives. Still seems somewhat tautological to me, however.

(BTW, I disagree that bean an tí is a "proper noun" in obair bhean an tí. Bean an tí doesn't uniquely designate any particular individual; after all, theoretically, every house could have one.)
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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby An Lon Dubh » 2014-07-30, 7:53

linguoboy wrote:Okay, I think I understand the distinction you're drawing between "qualifying attributive nouns" and other sorts of noun modifiers, including possessives. Still seems somewhat tautological to me, however.

I taught the distinction was common in Irish grammars, it's in Ó Nualláin and the Christian Brothers grammar I believe. How is the distinction tautological? I agree it could be wrong or pointless, but what makes it a tautology.

In Irish, as far as most treatments of the grammar go, there is a distinction between a noun in the genitive being used attributively as in:

bróg chailín = a girly shoe

And being used as simply another noun (possessing the previous one), not a quality/attribute of the proceeding noun, as in:

bróg cailín = a girl's shoe

Since they are treated differently grammatically, I would have thought it was an important distinction to make. One set, the "attributive nouns" are treated grammatically like adjectives, the other set are not.

(BTW, I disagree that bean an tí is a "proper noun" in obair bhean an tí. Bean an tí doesn't uniquely designate any particular individual; after all, theoretically, every house could have one.)

I didn't think it is a proper noun "logically", rather that it is taken as (treated as) a proper noun grammatically as definite genitive constructions always are, i.e. the first noun of a definite genitive construction is treated grammatically as if it were a proper noun, up to the phenomena known as bracketed constructions where native speakers originally had a distinction between:

obair bhean an tí

and

obair mhná an tí

This originally arose from:

ag déanamh oibre sagairt = doing priestly work (a more literal translation)

here obair goes into the genitive, as "sagart" is functioning as an attributive noun, essentially an adjective on "obair" and hence "obair" behaves no differently than if it had an adjective attached.

(P.S. I'm not convinced I'm right, you know more languages than me and have a broader scope on grammar, it's possible that these traditional grammatical distinctions are pointless as they arose from early Irish grammarians and not modern linguistics. For example Bonaventure Ó hEoghasa's five declension distinction.)

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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-08-16, 18:52

I'll watch TG4 every day (If I have time). ;)

Tá an geimhreadh ag teacht. - The winter is coming.
Clúdaigh do chosa le blaincéad. - Cover your feet with a blanket.
Ba mhaith liom na leabhair a cheannach. - I want to buy the books.
Tá an t-ábhar seo an-tábhachtach. - This matter is very important.
Labhraíonn duine Rúisis sa Rúis. - They speak Russian in Russia.
Tá m'iníon ag féachaint ar an teilifís. - My daughter is watching television.
Bhí a máthair ag cócaireacht sa chistin. - Her mother was cooking in the kitchen.
Ba mhaith liom Gaeilge líofa a labhairt. - I want to speak Irish fluently.
Ná habair choíche riamh. - Never say never.
An bhfaca tú mo dheirfiúr? - Did you see my sister?
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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-08-17, 16:50

Caitlín wrote:Tá an t-ábhar seo an-tábhachtach. - This matter is very important.
Caitlín wrote:Labhraíonn duine Rúisis sa Rúis. - They speak Russian in Russia.

The way you've phrased this, it reads "Someone speaks Russian in Russia." There are a number of ways to express a non-specific subject. One of the most common is by the use of the impersonal:

Labhraítear Rúisis sa Rúis.

A more colloquial way (at least in Munster) is to use the so-called passive-progressive:

Bíonn Rúisis á labhairt sa Rúis.

Since this is a progressive construction, it emphasises that this is something going on right now. It sounds silly to me in this case, but not if you replace sa Rúis with, say, sa Chasacstáin (where one might mistakenly believe that Russian is widely known but not actively spoken).

Caitlín wrote:Ba mhaith liom Gaeilge líofa a labhairt. - I want to speak Irish fluently.

Literally, "I want to speak fluent Irish". "Speaking Irish fluently" would be "Gaeilge a labhairt go líofa".

Caitlín wrote:Ná habair choíche riamh. - Never say never.

Riamh means "never" only in reference to past events. (It may help to recognise the resemblance to the preposition roimh "before".) So the meaning is something like "Never say 'never before'." Which might make sense if your intention is something like, "Never say that something is happening for the first time."

But the usual meaning of the idiom is "Never say something will never happen." And I think the most natural way to phrase that is Ná habair choíche go deo!
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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-11-01, 18:09

How can you translate "He treats me like his slave." to Irish?

I tried to translate it: Caitheann sé liom le a sclábhaí.

Please correct all the mistakes I've made.
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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-11-01, 21:13

Caitlín wrote:How can you translate "He treats me like his slave." to Irish?

I tried to translate it: Caitheann sé liom le a sclábhaí.

You can't say *le a in Irish; the combined form is lena. But I don't think the syntax quite works. You would need a complex sentence, something like:

Bíonn sé liom mar a bheadh sé lena sclábhaí. (Lit. "He does be with me as he would be with his slave".)

If you want something pithier, though, this might work:

Tugann sé meas sclábhaí orm. ("He puts the regard of a slave on me", i.e. "He regards me as a slave")

Depending on what exactly you mean, there could be other fitting formulations as well.
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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2015-01-22, 19:08

I'm back again! Translating some sentences.

Ní hí ach an bhó meaisín a dhéanann an féar inólta. - The cow is simply a machine that makes grass drinkable. :?:
Is mian liom go mbua Éire Corn an Domhain. - I wish Ireland won the World Cup.
Tá an fhírinne soiléir i ndáiríre. - The truth is really clear.
Níor mhaith liom a insint duit an fhírinne. - I don't want to tell you the truth.
Ar bhréag í? - Was it a lie?
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Re: Caitlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-22, 20:27

Caitlín wrote:Ní hí ach an bhó ach meaisín a dhéanann an féar inólta. - The cow is simply a machine that makes grass drinkable. :?:
I don't think you can have this sort of predicate adjective construction in Irish. I would be more comfortable with something like ...dhéanann rud inólta d'fhéar.

Caitlín wrote:Is mian liom go mbua Éire Corn an Domhain. - I wish Ireland won the World Cup.
The usual form of a counterfactual like this in Irish is not "I wish they had won" but "I'm sorry they didn't win", e.g. Is mairg nár bhuaigh Éire Corn an Domhain.

Caitlín wrote:Tá an fhírinne soiléir i ndáiríre. - The truth is really clear.
Níor mhaith liom an fhírinne a insint duit an fhírinne. - I don't want to tell you the truth.
Ar bhréag é? - Was it a lie?
Bréag may be feminine, but unspecified abstract subjects default to masculine. There's nothing wrong with this construction, but it sounds more idiomatic to me to say Nach bhfuil ann ach bréag?
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2015-03-04, 16:06

Go raibh míle maith agaibh!

Déanfaidh mé iarracht níos mó abairtí a scríobh. Cuirfidh mé san áireamh freisin aistriúcháin as Béarla.
I will try to write more sentences. I will also include English translations.

Tá Cáit ag léamh an nuachtáin. - Cáit is reading the newspaper.
Nílim ag léamh nuachtáin. - I'm not reading a newspaper.
An bhfuil tú i do chónaí i Meiriceá? - Do you live in America?
Cá bhfuil an phríomhchathair Stáit Aontaithe Mheiriceá? - Where is the capital of the United States of America?
Déanfaidh mé staidéar tar éis a thiocfaidh mé abhaile. - I'll study after I come home.
An bhfuil tú ag foghlaim Gaeilge ar do chuid féin? - Are you learning Irish on your own?
D'fhoghlaim mé a lán rudaí sa cheacht seo. - I learned many things in this lesson.
Tá do mháthair ina cónaí sa Ghaeltacht. - Your mother lives in Gaeltacht.
Tá carr nua uaim. - I want a new car.
Is mian liom carr nua a cheannach. - I want to buy a new car.
Labhraítear Béarla ar fud an domhain. - English is spoken all over the world.
Is maith liom sacar. - I like soccer.
Rinne na póilíní cinneadh é a ghabháil. - The police decided to arrest him.
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-04, 16:32

Aisling wrote:Déanfaidh mé iarracht ar níos mó abairtí a scríobh. Cuirfidh mé san áireamh freisin aistriúcháin as Béarla freisin.

Cá bhfuil an phríomhchathair na Stáit Aontaithe Mheiriceá? - Where is the capital of the United States of America?
Déanfaidh mé staidéar tar éis a thiocfaidh méteacht abhaile dom. - I'll study after I come home.
An bhfuil tú ag foghlaim Gaeilge as do chuidstuaim féin? - Are you learning Irish on your own?
Rinne na póilíní cinneadh ar é a ghabháil. - The police decided to arrest him.
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2015-03-04, 21:06

Go raibh míle maith agat! Scríobhfaidh mé roinnt níos mó abairtí. (I hope I will do less mistakes at least in writing by practicing here on UniLang)

Táim ag scríobh leabhair duit. - I'm writing you a book.
Déanfaidh mé iarracht ar litir a scríobh duit. - I'll try to write you a letter.
An ndéanfaidh tú staidéar tar éis teacht abhaile duit? - Will you study after you come home?
An bhfuil tú ag labhairt Gaeilge? - Are you speaking Irish?
Ceapaim nach teanga deacair í an Ghaeilge. - I think that Irish is not a difficult language.
Labhraítear Spáinnis ina lán tíortha. - Spanish is spoken in many countries.
An bhfuil Tatairis agat? - Do you speak Tatar?
Tá leabhar gramadaí agam. - I have a grammar book.
Ní inseoidh mé cad a tharla duit d'aon duine. - I won't tell anyone what happened to you.
Ní mise do mhúinteoir. - I'm not your teacher.
Is breá liom cuideachtúil a bheith. - I love being sociable.
Tá grá agam dá hiníon. - I love her daughter.
Thug mé an tseamróg don chailín álainn. - I gave the shamrock to the beautiful girl.
Tá sí ag ól beorach lenár gcairde sa bhialann. - She is drinking beer with our friends in the restaurant.
Ní ólann Cáit riamh beoir. - Cáit never drinks beer.
Tá Cáit ag léamh nuachtáin as Gaeilge. - Cáit is reading a newspaper in Irish.
Tá seamróg ag an gcailín álainn. - The beautiful girl has a shamrock.
Tá Niall ina chónaí i mBaile Átha Cliath. - Niall lives in Dublin.
Is mise ceann na scoile. - I'm the head of the school.
Is í Kazan príomhchathair na Tatarstáine. - Kazan is the capital of Tatarstan.
Tá páiste le siondróm Down agam. - I have a child with Down syndrome.
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-06, 5:10

Aisling wrote:Ní inseoidh mé cad a tharla duit d'aon duine. - I won't tell anyone what happened to you.
Better: Ní inseoidh mé d'aon duine cad a tharla duit.

Aisling wrote:Is breá liom cuideachtúil a bheith cuideachtúil. - I love being sociable.
Cuideachtúil isn't a direct object, it's a predicate adjective, and only subjects and objects can precede a verbal noun in this sort of construction.

Aisling wrote:Ní ólann Cáit riamh beoir in aon chor. - Cáit never drinks beer.
Riamh only means "never" in past contexts. (Its literary meaning is "before"; cf. roimh, .)

Aisling wrote:Tá Cáit ag léamh nuachtáin as Gaeilge. - Cáit is reading a newspaper in Irish.
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2015-03-06, 18:56

Go raibh maith agat!

I've decided to continue writing more sentences.

Níl ach aon ceacht amháin againn inniu. - We have only one lesson today.
Is Gaeilgeoir í an cara is fearr agam. - My best friend is an Irish speaker.
Níl ach dhá inscne sa Ghaeilge. - There are only two genders in Irish.
Tá mo chara ag ithe éisc. - My friend is eating fish.
Níl an t-iasc san uisce. - The fish is not in the water.
Tá an t-iasc dearg ag snámh san aigéan. - The red fish is swimming in the ocean.
Táim ag foghlaim Gaeilge go mall. - I’m learning Irish slowly.
Tá grá againn don chailín sin. - We love that girl.
Chonaic mé cailín le gruaig rua. - I saw a girl with ginger hair.
Tá an obair déanta agam. - I have done the work.
Tá m'iníon ag tvuíteáil anois. - My daughter is tweeting now.
Cad é an focal is fearr leat? - What is your favourite word?
Táim i gcoinne foréigean in aghaidh na mban. - I’m against violence against women.
Ní réitíonn an foréigean aon fhadhb. - Violence doesn’t solve any problems.
Is gorm é mo dath is fearr liom. - My favourite colour is blue.
An bhfuil do charr nua? - Is your car new?
Tá cáis ite agam. - I have eaten cheese.
Níl sicín ite agam riamh. - I have never eaten chicken.
An bhfuil grá agat dom? - Do you love me?
Ní théim go dtí an scoil in aon chor. - I never go to school.
Ní fheicim aon rud. - I don’t see anything.
Tá mo dheirfiúr ag ól beorach sa bharra. - My sister is drinking beer in the bar.
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-06, 19:59

Aisling wrote:Níl ach aon cheacht amháin againn inniu. - We have only one lesson today.
Táim i gcoinne foréigin in aghaidh na mban. - I’m against violence against women.
Is gorm é moan dath is fearr liom. - My favourite colour is blue.
Tá cáis ite agam. - I have eaten cheese.
Níl sicín ite agam riamh. - I have never eaten chicken.
Usage is changing in this area due to heavy English influence, but traditionally this construction is not equivalent to an English present perfect. For me, Tá cáis ite agam has the sense of "I have just eaten cheese". I could use it at midday if someone's asking me what I've had for lunch, but not to talk about my food habits more generally. So Níl sicín ite agam riamh looks ill-formed to me.

Aisling wrote:Ní théim go dtí an scoil in aon chor. - I never go to school.
This translates as "I never go to the school building." If you mean "I never attend classes", you want Ní théim ar scoil in aon chor.

Aisling wrote:Ní fheicim aon rud. - I don’t see anything.
Not incorrect per se, but I think either aon ní (Munster) or rud ar bith (Connacht) is more idiomatic.

Aisling wrote:Tá mo dheirfiúr ag ól beorach sa bheár. - My sister is drinking beer in the bar.
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby Sectori » 2015-03-06, 20:27

linguoboy wrote:
Aisling wrote:Tá cáis ite agam. - I have eaten cheese.
Níl sicín ite agam riamh. - I have never eaten chicken.
Usage is changing in this area due to heavy English influence, but traditionally this construction is not equivalent to an English present perfect. For me, Tá cáis ite agam has the sense of "I have just eaten cheese". I could use it at midday if someone's asking me what I've had for lunch, but not to talk about my food habits more generally. So Níl sicín ite agam riamh looks ill-formed to me.
obviously Gaelic and Irish are different languages, but in this case it seems like it might be useful to chime in in agreement — to say "I have never eaten cheese", you'd just use the simple past, cha do dh’ith mi (a-)riamh càise (lit., "I did not ever eat cheese").
tha dannsa nad ghluasadan,
’s bàrdachd neònach air cùl do bhruidhinn,
anns na faclan nach abair thu idir.

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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2015-03-07, 21:30

Go raibh maith agat, a linguoboy!

I need to ask you guys a question:
What is the equivalent of present perfect in Irish? Does one use the past simple instead?
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-07, 21:49

Aisling wrote:Go raibh maith agat, a linguoboy!
Níl a bhuíochas agat!

Aisling wrote:What is the equivalent of present perfect in Irish? Does one use the past simple instead?
That is exactly what one does. Is an bhfuair tú riamh bréagach mé? ("And have you ever known me to lie?")
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Re: Aisling - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2015-03-08, 16:32

What are the differences between "Is ceapaire é." and "Ceapaire atá ann."?
I wanted to mean "It is a sandwich."

And how is the "atá ann" structure used in which situations?
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