Llawygath - Cymraeg

[Llawygath]

Since Croeso i'r Gymraeg and Basic Welsh Course are kind of inactive right now, I figure it's high time to start up my own thread on this. I just hope YngNghymru and linguoboy don't mind. After all, linguoboy did start that thread for me, which was very nice of her -- thanks again!

Before we begin, which will be in the next post, I'd like to just point out a few things:
- I would prefer replies to be mainly in either English or French; either of those is fine. I will be writing in English because it's easier to type and I know it slightly better, but this does not have to be what you post in. Welsh and Spanish are also permitted but I may ask for a translation if you use either of those due to my inadequate facility with them. Any other language will have to be read by me with Google Translate, so if you insist on using one of those please make sure Google has it (and doesn't mangle it into total nonsense).
- This thread is not for total beginners; I am sorry to exclude you, but I spend enough time teaching my parents basic Welsh without doing it here too. I will be starting with mynediad/sylfaen level stuff because that's where I am at; I will not start from the beginning. I hope nobody objects to this. You should also be warned that when I am able I will write all my posts here entirely in Welsh. This is not to be obnoxious or unreadable, only to try to get into the water and swim rather than merely practice on the lawn.

Now we've got that out of the way, I'll list the books I have on hand and may be working from:
- Geiriau Cyntaf : Fferm Cae Berllan
- Teach Yourself Welsh
- Welsh with Ease
- Welsh Phrasebook

[Llawygath]

- Geiriau Cyntaf : Fferm Cae Berllan
- Teach Yourself Welsh

A few notes:
The first book is actually for 2 year olds and such, if you haven't gathered from the title. I found it pretty easy reading, as I should have; the only issue was that I don't trust everything it seems to say and it's apparently written in Northern Welsh (I'm trying to stick to the standard). There's nothing wrong with writing in a dialect, but I end up tripping over all dialect material and then complaining about it. Anyway, I will be posting my questions about dubious stuff in it, and maybe translations of the text too.
I found this post a while back on Omniglot:

Welsh came easier to me, though it wasn't until college that I actually met a Welsh-speaker (a non-native who'd studied it on the Llŷn Peninsula). This was the beginning of the process of unlearning the "lies" Rhys Jones had taught me, one that has taken me years.

(Emphasis mine.)
I wonder, what are these lies? Are they in TY Welsh, considering that Rhys Jones wrote it? Will I have to unlearn them too? TY Welsh does have a few dubious statements in it, aside from the ubiquitous British/Welsh English biases such as "r is trilled as in pram" and "long a is pronounced like <ar>". I'll have to paraphrase them because I can't find the book atm.
1) The literary [i.e. written] word for 'my' is fy; the f is usually dropped in speech, and often the y as well. Before (most?) words that can't take the nasal mutation, the word is (f)yn:

'yn chwaer i
Sion yw'n enw i

I haven't read everything else there is by any stretch, but I have never seen fyn anywhere except in there. The rest of the information about fy appears to be true.
2) Possessive pronouns are 'weak' and have to be 'buttressed' by non-possessives on the other side of the noun; for example, you can't say *fyn chwaer, you would have to say fyn chwaer i.
This can't possibly be right. I'm sure I've seen possessive pronouns holding up a noun all by themselves. Is this some rule for speech only? There's quite a bit more preference for learning speaking over writing skills than I'd like to see, which would explain this.

Looks like it's the next post that will have some actual content rather than just a bunch of meta-babbling. Sorry everyone. Whoops!

[YngNghymru]

You won't see fyn, except maybe in very old texts, because as it says the written form is fy. I'll admit I've never heard anyone say fyn, but yn/y/'n are all common spoken forms.

The buttressing thing isn't entirely true. Generally speaking the reinforcing pronoun appears when the referent is pretty 'new' in the discourse and then doesn't appear after that. He's right, though, that out of context they almost always appear (because out of context the possessor is inevitably going to be 'new', I suppose). In some dialects, reinforcing pronouns (without preceding possessive pronouns) are common for pronominal possessive constructions.

[Llawygath]

You won't see fyn, except maybe in very old texts, because as it says the written form is fy.

Glad we've got that straightened out. Then I suppose you can't write (f)yn anymore?

I'll admit I've never heard anyone say fyn, but yn/y/'n are all common spoken forms.

So the book is right then. Actually, when I wrote fyn I meant (fy)n, i.e. fyn/'yn/'n. I was using it as a cover spelling.
In that case, would something like Sion yw'n enw i be okay in speech or the only possibility? Is (f)yn required or optional before unmutable words? That is, is Sion yw fy enw (i) acceptable in speech or only in writing?

The buttressing thing isn't entirely true. Generally speaking the reinforcing pronoun appears when the referent is pretty 'new' in the discourse and then doesn't appear after that. He's right, though, that out of context they almost always appear (because out of context the possessor is inevitably going to be 'new', I suppose).

I think you've explained me this before, but it's always good to be reminded.

In some dialects, reinforcing pronouns (without preceding possessive pronouns) are common for pronominal possessive constructions.

If there is no possessive pronoun present, does that mean there is still a mutation or is that gone too?

[Llawygath]

You know what, I'm not sure what this thread is for. The answers to my exercises are in the back of my textbook, and there's probably nothing much wrong with it anyway...
If someone can give me a reason why I should use this thread, please let me know. I can't think of any.