księżyc - Gaelainn

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księży - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2013-04-07, 7:06

księżycowy wrote:1) Níl, níl dúlagar orm, ach tá dúlagar ar mo chara.

2) An bhfuil eacstaiseach ort?

(1) is fine, (2) is not. Eacstaiseach is an adjective. So either "An bhfuil eacstaiseach tú?" or "An bhfuil eacstais ort?"
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księży - Gaeilge

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-07, 12:22

Go raibh maith agat!

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 2919
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: księży - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-04-07, 17:16

linguoboy wrote: "An bhfuil eacstaiseach tú?"


Nach ndéarfaí é mar "An bhfuil tú eacstaiseach?" ?
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księży - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2013-04-07, 18:09

Ciarán12 wrote:
linguoboy wrote: "An bhfuil eacstaiseach tú?"


Nach ndéarfaí é mar "An bhfuil tú eacstaiseach?" ?

Déarfainn. Do bhíos ar meisce nuair a scríobhas sin.

(Déanta na fírinne, "An bhfuileann tú eacstaiseach?" is ea a dhéarfainnse féin, agus canúint is ea sin.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księży - Gaeilge

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-21, 18:04

Here's another question for you guys, how would you say "They scare me."
Here is my best attempt: "Scanrann siad mé."
If you need any context, it's from the Answer-Ask game. And I'm pretty sure I said "no" wrong as well.

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 2919
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: księży - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-04-21, 19:49

księżycowy wrote:Here's another question for you guys, how would you say "They scare me."
Here is my best attempt: "Scanrann siad mé."
If you need any context, it's from the Answer-Ask game.


It would be "Scanraíonn siad mé", and as far as I can work out, that is how you would phrase it. My gut said "Cuireann siad eagla orm", but my research says otherwise :? .

księżycowy wrote:And I'm pretty sure I said "no" wrong as well.


Answering a "yes/no" question in Irish that was posed in another language is hard, because the answer has to be the verb in the positive or negative. I usually try to think of what the most idiomatic version of the question would be in Irish and do it that way, but "Tá" and "Níl" or "Sea" and "Ní hea" are the usual answers, and are used as Irish "translations" of "Yes" and "No" often, so responding with "Níl" is fine. (I wanted to see if I could translate the question into Irish and see which verb would be used, but I didn't know any of the languages the question was asked in :wink: )
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księży - Gaeilge

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-21, 20:04

Ciarán12 wrote:It would be "Scanraíonn siad mé", and as far as I can work out, that is how you would phrase it. My gut said "Cuireann siad eagla orm", but my research says otherwise :? .

Wow, I didn't butcher that so badly. :lol:
Though let's see what Linguoboy says as well.

Answering a "yes/no" question in Irish that was posed in another language is hard, because the answer has to be the verb in the positive or negative. I usually try to think of what the most idiomatic version of the question would be in Irish and do it that way, but "Tá" and "Níl" or "Sea" and "Ní hea" are the usual answers, and are used as Irish "translations" of "Yes" and "No" often, so responding with "Níl" is fine. (I wanted to see if I could translate the question into Irish and see which verb would be used, but I didn't know any of the languages the question was asked in :wink: )

I have a very very basic knowledge of Ukrainian, between that and Google Translate (yes, I cheated :twisted: ) I figured out what Sophie said.

But yeah, that's one thing I find as an interesting challenge at this point for Gaelige. All of my other languages I'm studying now have "yes" (oui, tak) and "no" (non, nie). :P

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-31, 17:19

So, I've been reading through the first lesson of the Old TYI book and I'm a bit confused by the examples of the declensions. Specifically for the genitive. I believe they are only giving the genitive singular, but I can't be sure. The appendix didn't seem to be much more help to me. :?

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-31, 17:33

księżycowy wrote:So, I've been reading through the first lesson of the Old TYI book and I'm a bit confused by the examples of the declensions. Specifically for the genitive. I believe they are only giving the genitive singular, but I can't be sure. The appendix didn't seem to be much more help to me. :?

I don't have a copy in front of me, but I remember there being full paradigms for the more common nouns but not for the irregulars. Do you have examples?

(FWIW, Ó Siadhail calls the genitive plural obsolete outside of fixed expressions.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-31, 17:36

I don't have it in front of me either, nor can I fully remember any of the paradigms.

I'll post some after work.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-31, 18:19

In general, the genitive plural is either (1) identical to the nom/acc singular or (2) identical to the nom/acc plural. The second case is more common. The first only applies to nouns with so-called "weak plurals" (i.e. those first and second declension nouns which pluralise by slenderising or by adding -a--which is most of them, the chief exceptions being those which form the genitive singular in -(a)igh or -(a)idh[*] but the genitive plural in -(a)í). These are marked; in the preface, Dillon and Ó Cróinín point out that they make take pleonastic weak plural endings, and Ó Siadhail's book is full of examples from Cois Fhairrge (hence why he calls distinct genitive plurals relic forms).

I think of the nouns you've learned so far, there probably aren't any irregulars except for bean (gen. pl. ban), whose paradigm is given in full.


[*] Which--as you know--are pronounced identically in Munster, i.e. /gʹ/ [ɟ].
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-31, 18:25

Thanks for that. I was looking over the paradigms on the Irish declension article on Wikipedia and that supports what you said above.

From what I remember of TYI, it just gives the genitive singular in lesson 1.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-31, 18:32

księżycowy wrote:Thanks for that. I was looking over the paradigms on the Irish declension article on Wikipedia and that supports what you said above.

From what I remember of TYI, it just gives the genitive singular in lesson 1.

Yeah, it doesn't introduce the genitive plural until later, but I know it's before adjective declension is covered because that section has full paradigms for noun + adj.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-31, 18:48

Actually that sounds about right, now that you mention it. I remember seeing some full paradigms in that book somewhere, I just couldn't remember where.

The thing that confused me in lesson one was the constant reference to simply the "genitive", with out specifying it was the singular only.

Thanks linguoboy.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-31, 18:54

księżycowy wrote:The thing that confused me in lesson one was the constant reference to simply the "genitive", with out specifying it was the singular only.

IIRC, the plural isn't introduced until Lesson 2, so I suspect they thought using "genitive" for "genitive singular" wasn't ambiguous.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-31, 19:04

They do go over the nominative plural in lesson one, but could be. (Well, for the declensions they go over.)

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2017-02-03, 15:25

Now that I have my copy, I can see the source of confusion. They do indeed use the label "Genitive" for the column containing the genitive singular. The genitive plural is first introduced in Lesson III in the last line of the first paragraph where the authors simply state, "The genitive plural in these two classes is the same as the nom. sg.".

This points up a fundamental weakness of TYI (and one of the reasons I think I bounced off of it the first time I tried to learn from it): There is no index and presentation of grammar points is somewhat haphazard. For instance, in that same chapter, they introduce some prepositions, but they don't give a full list until Lesson XII and wait until Lesson XIV to cover their actual usage--though many of the most important prepositional constructions aren't covered until Lesson XVII (i.e. use of le and do with the copula) or Lesson XXIII (possession). It's not bad to spread out such information rather than overwhelm the reader, but without a proper index, you need to become well-acquainted with the book before you know which chapter had the information you need in a particular instance.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2017-02-03, 16:27

That's good to keep in mind as I continue on. Thanks again, linguoboy.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 19117
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2017-02-03, 16:54

Ná caill do mhisneach! Bí righin is raghaidh leat!
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

księżycowy
Posts: 8292
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2017-03-12, 22:05

Anyone have any recommendations for singers/artists that sing in Munster Irish?
I'm making the assumption that most (if not all of it) will be traditional Irish music, and that is more than fine.

I have some Japanese music on my play list, and I thought it'd be cool to add Irish into that mix.


Return to “Celtic Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest