Basic Welsh Course

[YngNghymru]

Would there be interest in a course in basic Welsh? Whilst I'm not first-language and am dubious about taking it to an advanced level, I could certainly teach the kind of things that the courses on the other boards teach. If there's interest, I'd be willing.

[Schultz]

Having just decided to finally do something about my simmering urge to learn welsh, even just basic communicative welsh, your offer would certainly be taken up by at least this student.

I know that there is already a unilang guide, but in my opinion, there is no such thing as too much help when starting out.

[YngNghymru]

Well, one student is enough to start with, I suppose. Just to warn you, there are some errors in that course that should be looked out for, including an odd preference for formal Welsh that you're unlikely to hear in speech.

Right then.

Lesson 1: Pronunciation

The good news for any learner of Welsh is that its alphabet is a) Mostly easily recognisable to an English speaker and b) is almost totally phonetic, meaning that once you know the values of the letters, it's easy to read.

Vowels

a - /a/ (as in 'hat') or /ɑː/ (as in 'marsh')

e - /ɛ/ (as in 'bet') /eː/ (an elongated 'hey')

i - /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea'), /j/ (as in 'young')

o - /ɔ/ (as in 'frog'), /oː/ (as in 'door')

u - /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea') - NEVER pronounced as in 'hut' or 'boot'

w - /u/ (as in 'root'), sometimes /ʊ/ (as in 'duck')

y - In last syllables: /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea')
Everywhere else: /ə/ (as in 'hut')

The last letter, 'y', changes depending on its position in the word. In the final syllable, it is pronounced as 'i', elsewhere it is pronounced as 'uh'. This can be important because if a word in its singular form ends with a syllable containing 'y', when plural the sound of the 'y' can change:

Dyn (man, pronounced similarly to 'din') becomes Dynion (men, pronounced similarly to 'dunyon').

Consonants

b - Pronounced /b/ as English
c - Pronounced /k/ as English
ch - Pronounced /x/ as English 'loch'.
d - Pronounced /d/ as English
dd - Pronounced /ð/ as English hard 'th' in 'this' and 'that'
f - Pronounced /v/ as English 'v'
ff - Pronounced /f/ as English 'f'
g - Pronounced /g/ as English
ng - This one's more difficult - /ŋ/, pronounced as English 'thing', without stressing the 'g'.
h - Pronounced /h/ as English 'h'
l - Pronounced /l/ as English 'l'
ll - The one all the tourists get wrong. /ɬ/, no equivalent in English - place your tongue flat against the top of your mouth and push air out through your mouth. You should get a hissing sound. Sound sample can be found here.
m - Pronounced /m/ as English
n - Pronounced /n/ as English
p - Pronounced /p/ as English
ph - Pronounced /f/ as English 'f'
r - Pronounced /r/ - 'rolled' or 'trilled', as Scottish or Welsh English
rh - Pronounced /r̥/. Similar to pronouncing 'hr' with the 'r' rolled.
s - Pronounced /s/ as English. In some Southern dialects you'll sometimes hear it as /ʃ/, as in English 'she'.
t - Pronounced /t/ as English.
th - Pronounced /θ/ as English soft 'th', as in 'thing' or 'thatch'
w - Pronounced /w/ as English (note its vowel usage as well, however)

Diphthongs

ae - /ai/ (as English 'eye')
ai - /ai/ (as English 'eye')
au - /ai/ (as English 'eye').
aw - /au/ (as English 'growl')
ei - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
eu - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
ew - /ɛu/ ('ey-oo' run together)
ey - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
iw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)
oe - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
oi - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
ou - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
uw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)
wy - /ʊi/ (as in English 'gooey')
yw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)

[YngNghymru]

I hope I didn't overwhelm anyone with that rather overly large first post. For lesson two, I'm going to do something a bit simpler and probably more instantly useful.

Yr Ail Gwers: Cyfarchiadau (Lesson 2: Greetings)

Greetings

Helo - This is disliked by certain linguistic purists, but generally speaking it's fine. It can be used in exactly the same manner as 'hello' in English, and is pronounced almost identically, although the last 'o' is longer.

S'mae? - Informal. Similar to 'alright?' in English. Pronounced (at least where I live, other speakers feel free to comment on their own pronunciations) /smai/.

Bore da - Good morning. Pronounced /bɔre dɑː/, 'boh-ray-dar'.

Nos da - Good night. Pronounced /noːs dɑː/, 'nohsdar'.

Noswaith dda - Good evening. Pronounced /noːswaiθ dɑː/, 'nohs-withe-thar'

Prynhawn da - Good afternoon. Pronounced /prənhaun dɑː/, 'prun-hown dar'

P'nawn da - Good afternoon. Shortened version of prynhawn da, far more common. Pronounced /pnaun dɑː/, 'pnown dar'.

Goodbyes

Hwyl fawr! - Literally something like 'great joy', but can be used as 'goodbye' in English. Pronounced /hʊil vaur/, 'hoo-il vowr'.

Hwyl! - Shortened version of hwyl fawr. Pronounced /hʊil/, 'hoo-il'.

Pob hwyl i chi! - Pronounced /poːb hʊil iː xiː/, 'pob hoo-il ee chee'. The 'ch' is pronounced differently to English, see the alphabet section for details if you haven't quite got it yet. Used as the other two. Literally 'great joy to you'.

Pob hwyl i ti! - Pronounced /poːb hʊil iː tiː/, 'pob hoo-il ee tee'. This is an informal version of 'pob hwyl i chi', used once you've got to know someone better (or if you're younger, to people of the same age).

Nos da and noswaith dda can, like their English equivalents, also be used as 'goodbye'.

[Schultz]

Great stuff. Thanks.
The guide to pronunciation along with the words is a big help. It makes some of the combinations a lot less daunting. I cite 'wy' (oo-ee?).

But no, you're certainly not overwhelming me, yet. However, i'm sure that moment will come. lol

Nos da for now...

[YngNghymru]

Nos da i chi.

Just a quick note, if you didn't already notice, I miswrote 'noswaith dda' as 'noswaith da'. It's not a big thing, but it IS probably the first example of the soft mutation we've seen. It's corrected now, so more on that later.

[YngNghymru]

Right. After today I'll slow it down a bit, but I wanted to give you an exercise to do.

Y Drydedd Wers: 'Bod' a siarad amdanoch chi eich hun (Lesson 3: 'To be' and talking about yourself)

'Bod' is arguably the most important verb in the Welsh language. It allows the formation of all but one of the tenses and, of course, links objects together (as 'to be' in English). Today, to continue with our basic conversational theme, we're going to learn about identification sentences and other basic sentences with 'to be'.

Identification sentences

The usual word order of a Welsh sentence is verb-subject-object. However, in identification sentences, this word order changes to object-verb-subject to emphasise the object. Generally, identification sentences are used when stating what something is (at the beginning of a wikipedia article, for example, or when giving your name). The forms of bod used for identification sentences are:

ydw i (/ədu iː/, ud-oo ee) - I am
wyt ti (/ʊit tiː/, oo-eet tee) - You are
ydy o/e/hi (/ədiː oː/, /ədiː eː/, /ədiː hiː/, ud-ee oh/ey/hee) - He/He/She is
dyn ni (/dən niː/, dun nee) - We are
dych chi (/dəx xiː/, duch chi) - You are
dyn nhw (/dən hu/, dunn hw) - They are

So: 'Beth ydy eich enw chi?' - What is your name?
'Chris ydw i.' - I am Chris.

Two notes about pronouns before we continue:

As you may already know, 'ti' and 'chi' are the Welsh equivalents of French tu and vous. Ti is used to refer to one person informally, chi is used for the singular formal and for all plurals. It is always best to use 'chi' at first whenever speaking to a native and move on to 'ti' later, following their lead, or you may come off as unpleasantly familiar.

e and o both mean 'he' - the first is the southern version, the second the northern version. I'll be using 'o' most of the time, but you'll hear both, so it's wise to be aware of both of them. 'hi' means she in all dialects.

Stative sentences

Although it may seem counterintuitive to cover these sentences second, there is method to my madness, so bear with me. Stative sentences are standard sentences involving 'bod'. The good news is that once you know these six forms, you've mastered the positive present tense, and no further conjugation knowledge is required!

These sentences follow the usual word order of Verb-Subject-Object:

(Ry)dw i - (/rədu iː/, rud-oo ee) - I am
(R)wyt ti - (/rʊit tiː/, roo-eet tee) - You are
Mae o/hi - (/mai oː/, /mai hiː/, my oh/hee) - He/she is
(Ry)dyn ni - (/dən niː/, rudun nee) - We are
(Ry)dych chi - (/dəx xiː/, ruduch chi) - You are
(Ry)dyn nhw - (/dən hu/, rudunn hw) - They are

The 'r' and sometimes the 'y' are usually omitted in informal speech.

In sentences with standard word order, 'bod' must be linked to an adjective, noun or verbnoun (don't worry about these yet - that'll be next lesson) with the particle 'yn'. 'Yn' causes the soft mutation in adjectives and nouns. The soft mutation is by far the most common of Welsh's three mutations, and is applied to nine letters. For the exercise here, however, we're only going to worry about 'c', 't' and 'p' (these are the only three letters which all mutations can be applied to). For example:

Rydw i'n hapus - I am happy
Rydw i'n gyfreithwr - I'm a lawyer (from cyfreithwr)

With soft mutation, c becomes g, t becomes d and p becomes b (effectively, the consonants are hardened, or 'voiced').

Exercise

Fill in the holes in this conversation:

Mr Jones: Helo!
Learner:
Mr Jones: Beth ydy'ch enw chi?
Learner:
Mr Jones: Faint ydy'ch oed chi?
Learner:
Mr Jones: O, reit. Wel, rhaid i mi fynd - ond gwelaf i chi yn fuan!
Learner: (appropriate goodbye)

Vocabulary you may need:

oed - years old. Preceded by the number, so '15 oed'.

The last sentence, if you're interested, means 'I have to go, but I'll see you soon.'

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

Vowels
a - /a/ (as in 'hat') or /ɑː/ (as in 'marsh')
e - /ɛ/ (as in 'bet') /eː/ (an elongated 'hey')
i - /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea'), /j/ (as in 'young')
o - /ɔ/ (as in 'frog'), /oː/ (as in 'door')
u - /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea') - NEVER pronounced as in 'hut' or 'boot'
w - /u/ (as in 'root'), sometimes /ʊ/ (as in 'duck')
y - In last syllables: /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea')
Everywhere else: /ə/ (as in 'hut')

The last letter, 'y', changes depending on its position in the word. In the final syllable, it is pronounced as 'i', elsewhere it is pronounced as 'uh'. This can be important because if a word in its singular form ends with a syllable containing 'y', when plural the sound of the 'y' can change:
Diphthongs

ae - /ai/ (as English 'eye')
ai - /ai/ (as English 'eye')
au - /ai/ (as English 'eye').
aw - /au/ (as English 'growl')
ei - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
eu - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
ew - /ɛu/ ('ey-oo' run together)
ey - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
iw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)
oe - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
oi - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
ou - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
uw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)
wy - /ʊi/ (as in English 'gooey')
yw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)

I wonder, would you consider it wrong to have a rounded pronunciation of u and of the final syllable y, and would such a pronunciation change any of the diphthongs?

[YngNghymru]

Vowels
a - /a/ (as in 'hat') or /ɑː/ (as in 'marsh')
e - /ɛ/ (as in 'bet') /eː/ (an elongated 'hey')
i - /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea'), /j/ (as in 'young')
o - /ɔ/ (as in 'frog'), /oː/ (as in 'door')
u - /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea') - NEVER pronounced as in 'hut' or 'boot'
w - /u/ (as in 'root'), sometimes /ʊ/ (as in 'duck')
y - In last syllables: /ɪ/ (as in 'hit'), /iː/ (as in 'sea')
Everywhere else: /ə/ (as in 'hut')

The last letter, 'y', changes depending on its position in the word. In the final syllable, it is pronounced as 'i', elsewhere it is pronounced as 'uh'. This can be important because if a word in its singular form ends with a syllable containing 'y', when plural the sound of the 'y' can change:
Diphthongs

ae - /ai/ (as English 'eye')
ai - /ai/ (as English 'eye')
au - /ai/ (as English 'eye').
aw - /au/ (as English 'growl')
ei - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
eu - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
ew - /ɛu/ ('ey-oo' run together)
ey - /əi/ (close to English 'hey')
iw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)
oe - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
oi - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
ou - /ɔi/ (as in English 'toy')
uw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)
wy - /ʊi/ (as in English 'gooey')
yw - /ɪu/ ('ee-oo' run together)

I wonder, would you consider it wrong to have a rounded pronunciation of u and of the final syllable y, and would such a pronunciation change any of the diphthongs?

I don't really know about changing the diphthongs. To me, rounded /i/ and /ɪ/ sound rather Scouse rather than Welsh, but it'd still probably be approximately correct. Sorry I can't help you more, I'm not wonderful with phonetics.

My dysgwr appears to have disappeared!

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

I don't really know about changing the diphthongs. To me, rounded /i/ and /ɪ/ sound rather Scouse rather than Welsh, but it'd still probably be approximately correct. Sorry I can't help you more, I'm not wonderful with phonetics.

Well, I know almost nothing of Welsh, but the rounded pronunciation of u (like French u [y] was used by Bryn Terfel when he listed the Welsh sounds a few years ago, although Morris-Jones "An Elementary Welsh Grammar (1921) says that "u was formerly sounded like French u, but now its sound is the same as the clear sound of y".
(I will have to listen more to Welsh to hear what it is now, it seems.)

[YngNghymru]

After some practice, I've realised you CAN pronounce /i/ and /u/ with rounded lips and have them sound correct. They don't sound that different to me unrounded, though. BBC has a lot of sound samples.

[Schultz]

Sorry for the lack of posting, I've been away from my home pc for the last few days. Still, least I'm back in time for the start Ashes.

Anyway, to Welsh. I've had a quick go at the exercise; let's see if I managed to louse it up.

Mr Jones: Helo!
Learner: Bore da.
Mr Jones: Beth ydy'ch enw chi?
Learner: Stephen ydw i.
Mr Jones: Faint ydy'ch oed chi?
Learner: dw i'n 30 oed.
Mr Jones: O, reit. Wel, rhaid i mi fynd - ond gwelaf i chi yn fuan!
Learner: Hywl fawr.

[YngNghymru]

I was worried you'd disappeared.

Perfect, anyway! The next lesson will deal with the soft mutation. Unfortunately, the soft mutation is necessary for practically anything in Welsh beyond your name - so we might as well cover it early on. Then we can do some more difficult exercises...

[Schultz]

Hello again

Nope not disappeared, I wouldn't do that to you. Well, not unless you made me have a go at pronouncing that train station. hehe

Soft mutation eh? As in: Croeso i Gymru, instead of Cymru? That one has kind of filtered in from the numerous border crossings. So, hey, maybe it will have given me an advantage. (I live in hope hehe)

Looking forward to it.

Hwyl fawr.

[YngNghymru]

Yep. There are nine sound changes, and unfortunately the soft mutation pops up everywhere... but once you know it it's relatively easy to apply, so we might as well start early. It's a pity, because in most celtic languages you can get some other stuff down before starting on the mutations, but there we go.

[YngNghymru]

Y Bedwaredd Wers: Enwau ac y treiglad meddal (Fourth lesson: Nouns and the soft mutation)

In Welsh, nouns have one of two genders, masculine or feminine. Whilst generally things that possess real gender fall into the correct category, most of these are arbitrary and must be learnt with the word. To give an example, ci (dog) is masculine but cath (cat) is feminine. Also, in another rather embarrassing mistake, it transpires that 'gwers' is feminine, meaning that I've had to correct all the titles. But that's by the by, since that's a particular usage of the soft mutation that we don't need to look at for ages yet.

Masculine nouns are not really something we need to worry about - they cause no changes. However, feminine singular nouns - such as Gwers and Cath - change adjectives that follow them and also mutate themselves when they follow the word y, 'the'. It's also important to note here that there is no equivalent to 'a' in Welsh - if there is no y in front of a word, it's considered to have an 'a' there for most English translations.

Plurals

Unfortunately, plurals are not really predictable in Welsh either - some can be, with practice, but especially when you begin it's best to just learn the plural, the gender, and the word all together. Some common plural patterns are:

Addition of -au or -iau, sometimes with accompanying sound change. Although this is part of the language's stereotype, it's actually less common than you'd think - still, it can often be used in place of other plurals if you're stuck in conversation. Example: Cadair becomes Cadeiriau.

Addition of -ion: Dyn becomes Dynion.

Removal of -yn or similar with accompanying sound change. Whilst not particularly numerous, there are several words that in their plural form are actually shorter, some of which are extremely common. A good example is Plentyn, 'child', the plural of which is Plant (rather than 'plentynnau' or 'plentynod' as might be expected).

The Soft Mutation

The most common of all Welsh mutations, the soft mutation affects all nine 'mutablé letters (whilst the nasal mutation affects six and the aspirate three). The sound changes are as follows:

b becomes f
c becomes g
d becomes dd
g becomes nothing (i.e. it disappears)
ll becomes l
m becomes f
p becomes b
rh becomes r
t becomes d

The places that wéve seen this so far are:

In nouns and adjectives after yn: 'Mae hi'n gath', 'Mae hi'n felen' (from 'cath', meaning 'cat', and 'melen', meaning 'yellow').

In feminine nouns following y: 'y gath', 'y wers' (from 'cath' and 'gwers').

In adjectives following a feminine noun: 'cath fawr' (from 'mawr', meaning 'largé)

Yoúve probably also seen it on signs following several prepositions, such as the excellent example i Gymru. Most prepositions cause the soft mutation, including o (from). It also occurs in several other places, including after several numbers, but we'll worry about that later.

Exercise

Use http://www.geiriadur.net to mutate the following words correctly:

y cath
y ci
y cathod (plural of 'cath')
cyfreithwr mawr
y tŷ mawr
mae o'n dyn
o Caernarfon

[Schultz]

Hmm, I think I've got it, but I guess the exercise will prove that one way or the other.
It actually didn't seem as daunting when I sat down to have a go, as it did when I was reading through, which was a nice surprise. But that can mean one of two things with me; either I've cracked it, or I haven't got the foggiest what I'm doing. lol

So, hoping for the former; here's my attempt.

y cath = y gath
y ci = y ci
y cathod (plural of 'cath') = y cathod
cyfreithwr mawr = cyfreithwyr mawr
y tŷ mawr = y ty mawr
mae o'n dyn = mae o’n ddyn
o Caernarfon = o Gaernarfon

[YngNghymru]

Other than you putting cyfreithiwr into the plural (which may've been because I missed out the i in a typo) you've got the soft mutation down perfectly! You're too good at this, it would seem.

[Schultz]

lol Thanks, it's early days yet though, I'm sure it's going to get a lot harder, but nonetheless, I am enjoying it. And, having a good teacher helps enormously; these lessons are really well done, you're making it all seem very easy and straight forward. I do appreciate all your help.

[YngNghymru]

Thankyou.

And you're right. It will probably get harder. But not for a while.