Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 18839
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby linguoboy » 2016-07-14, 16:14

IpseDixit wrote:Hi everyone, I'm not interested in learning Irish (well, not for now at least), but I have a burning curiosity to know why sometimes there's a capital letter in the middle of a word, can you explain to me why that is and what its use is?

It's quite simple, really. Like all living Celtic languages, Irish has initial consonant mutations. In most of these languages, the orthographic convention is to replace the consonant, e.g. Cymraeg "Welsh" > yn Gymraeg "in Welsh". In Irish (and Scottish Gaelic), however, the practice is to prefix the resulting consonant to the original consonant, e.g. Gaeilge "Irish" > i nGaeilge "in Irish". [Pronounced with initial [ŋ].] This happens with all words (e.g. i ngeall, i ngaire, go ngabhad), but it only stands out when a proper noun is involved.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
IpseDixit
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 8636
Joined: 2013-05-06, 21:06
Gender: male
Location: Florence
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby IpseDixit » 2016-07-14, 16:31

linguoboy wrote:It's quite simple, really. Like all living Celtic languages, Irish has initial consonant mutations. In most of these languages, the orthographic convention is to replace the consonant, e.g. Cymraeg "Welsh" > yn Gymraeg "in Welsh". In Irish (and Scottish Gaelic), however, the practice is to prefix the resulting consonant to the original consonant, e.g. Gaeilge "Irish" > i nGaeilge "in Irish". [Pronounced with initial [ŋ].] This happens with all words (e.g. i ngeall, i ngaire, go ngabhad), but it only stands out when a proper noun is involved.


So the G/g becomes silent in those cases or both n and G/g are pronounced?

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 18839
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby linguoboy » 2016-07-14, 17:06

IpseDixit wrote:So the G/g becomes silent in those cases?

Not really "silent" since it takes both the <n> and the <g> together to represent /ŋ/. Clearer examples might be i mBairéin "in Bahrain", i nDoire "in Derry", or i bhFear Manach "in Fermanagh" where the capitalised consonant is completely silent.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
IpseDixit
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 8636
Joined: 2013-05-06, 21:06
Gender: male
Location: Florence
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby IpseDixit » 2016-07-14, 18:52

linguoboy wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:So the G/g becomes silent in those cases?

Not really "silent" since it takes both the <n> and the <g> together to represent /ŋ/. Clearer examples might be i mBairéin "in Bahrain", i nDoire "in Derry", or i bhFear Manach "in Fermanagh" where the capitalised consonant is completely silent.


I see, thanks!

User avatar
Núria Harket
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 1455
Joined: 2007-01-31, 15:04
Real Name: Núria Harket
Gender: female
Location: Catalunya, Tarragona
Country: ES Spain (España)
Contact:

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Núria Harket » 2016-08-24, 19:57


User avatar
ceid donn
Posts: 1876
Joined: 2008-02-15, 0:58
Real Name: Céid
Gender: female
Contact:

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby ceid donn » 2016-08-25, 19:11



Thanks for posting this.

I don't agree with some of its contentions, like how had it survived Scottish Gaelic and Manx wouldn't be seen as separate languages. This is highly dismissive of the way Gaelic and Manx developed on their own independent of Irish, how Manx took on a completely different orthography, how Gaelic had been influenced by Nordic languages, and how both Gaelic and Manx are deposits of vocabulary, idioms, tradition, history, song, storytelling and folklore pertaining to cultures and communities unique to Isle of Man and Scotland and thus are not Irish and do not relate to the Irish language.

I agree that the Gaelic languages are close, but ignoring what makes them distinct is problematic at best and insulting at worst.

User avatar
Núria Harket
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 1455
Joined: 2007-01-31, 15:04
Real Name: Núria Harket
Gender: female
Location: Catalunya, Tarragona
Country: ES Spain (España)
Contact:

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Núria Harket » 2016-10-15, 15:45

You're welcome ceid donn

I can't comment on what you say, I'm a Germanic languages person :wink:

I hope this can be of help for beginners

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIokUII7LX0&feature=youtu.be

User avatar
iodalach93
Posts: 817
Joined: 2013-01-03, 23:51
Real Name: Alex
Gender: male
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby iodalach93 » 2016-12-28, 14:27

A chairde,

Ar an gcéad rud, Nollaig shona agus Bliain Nua faoi mhaise daoibh!

Ar an dara rud, ba mhian liom ceist a chur oraibh. Tá mo cheist mar gheall ar úsaid an pháirteagal "a" roimh na hainmneacha briathartha.

An ceart a rá "Tá orm dúiseacht go moch amárach"? Nó an chaithfear a rá "Tá orm a dhúiseacht..."? Ní thuigim an riail go maith, mar - dar liom féin - úsáidtear i gcónaí leis an bpártaigeal "a" roinnt bhriathra, mar shampla "beith" ( -> a bheith).

Go raibh míle maith agaibh,

Alex
 (it) Correggete i miei errori, per favore.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (sv) Snälla rätta till mina fel.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (id) Tolong perbaiki kesalahan saya.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid bhotún, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 18839
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby linguoboy » 2016-12-28, 23:54

Más féidir leat sin a scríobh i nGaelainn, ba chóir duit a bheith ábalta an roinnt ábhartha a léamh sa Ghramadach na Gaeilge oifigiúil: http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/rannoganaistriuchain/ancaighdeanoifigiuil/.

Táim ábalta a rá dhuit gur eisceacht atánn in gceist le beith. Go bhfios dom, tá sí i gcónaí le fáil le séimhiú. Ar gach dóigh eile, dealraíonn sé go mbraitheann sé an bhfuil cuspóir ann. Mar sin ní déarfainn *"Tá orm a dhúiseacht go moch amárach" toisc ná fuil aon chuspóir le fáil san abairt sin. (Cf. "Tá orm é a dhúiseacht[*] go moch amárach".)


[*] Nó "...é a chur ina dhúiseacht" a mbíonn an bhriathar so neamhaistreach.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
iodalach93
Posts: 817
Joined: 2013-01-03, 23:51
Real Name: Alex
Gender: male
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby iodalach93 » 2016-12-29, 12:23

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Linguoboy.
 (it) Correggete i miei errori, per favore.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (sv) Snälla rätta till mina fel.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (id) Tolong perbaiki kesalahan saya.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid bhotún, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.


Return to “Celtic Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest