Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-11-08, 11:17

What this guy is speaking can hardly be called "Irish". This is what I'm getting:

"Ceapfaidh mé Gaeilge an-mhaith. Áááá tá ceapfaidh mé Gaeilge an-mhaith" - "I will think Irish very well. Ahhhhh is I'll think Irish very well."

...

"Tá mé ceapfaidh Gaeilge an-mhaith" - I am Irish (language) will think very well.

"Donnie is ainm liom" - My name is Donnie. (Also, I can't rule it out as a possible dialectal variation, but it should be "dom" here rather than "liom" in every version of it I've ever heard)

"Is maith liom margadh gan fuckin'..." I like a market without fuckin'..."

"Joe is ainm liom" - My name is Joe.

Also, I've met the guy he speaks to at 2:40, ha.
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-11-08, 14:04

My reaction:

Image

Thanks anyway.

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Sectori » 2014-11-16, 15:48

Lately I've been idly paging through Dónall P. Ó Baoill's An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Uladh, and I came across a passage in the section on phonology that threw me off:
Ó Baoill wrote:I bhfocal ilsiollacha a bhfaightear eadh ina lár tá dhá dhóigh lena rá (a) mar agh agus an gh á fhuaimniú mar a bhíonn i dtús focail agus (b) mar dhéfhoghar mar atá san fhocal Béarla height. Is gnách go bhfaightear fuaimniú (a) ina measc siúd a bhfuil ú neamhchruinn acu mar fhuaimniú ar ao agus fuaimniú (b) acu siúd ar í a deir siad le ao.

Is this an accurate (if somewhat free) translation:
There are two ways of pronouncing polysyllabic words ending in eadh, (a) as agh, with gh sounding as it does at the beginning of words, and (b) as a diphthong, as in the English word height. Generally, the (a) sound occurs where ao sounds as unrounded ú and the (b) sound where ao is pronounced as í.

If that's accurate: do Ulster people who have í for ao really have [ǝi] for (e)adh? (Examples he gives include ar feadh, is ea(dh), adhradh, and teaghlach, so apparently it's not about word-finality, despite the first sentence, and covers (e)agh.) This seems extremely wrong to me, but I can't tell if that's because I'm misreading it, not understanding what I'm reading, or just have gotten too used to hearing Conamara and Conamara-learner Irish.

I'd expect Ulster to (broadly) be closer to Gaelic than southern dialects, and there's no Gaelic dialect that does this as far as I know (my ear revolts at the idea of [fʲǝi] for feadh).
tha dannsa nad ghluasadan,
’s bàrdachd neònach air cùl do bhruidhinn,
anns na faclan nach abair thu idir.

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-11-16, 16:42

Sectori wrote:Lately I've been idly paging through Dónall P. Ó Baoill's An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Uladh, and I came across a passage in the section on phonology that threw me off:
Ó Baoill wrote:I bhfocal ilsiollacha a bhfaightear eadh ina lár tá dhá dhóigh lena rá (a) mar agh agus an gh á fhuaimniú mar a bhíonn i dtús focail agus (b) mar dhéfhoghar mar atá san fhocal Béarla height. Is gnách go bhfaightear fuaimniú (a) ina measc siúd a bhfuil ú neamhchruinn acu mar fhuaimniú ar ao agus fuaimniú (b) acu siúd ar í a deir siad le ao.

Is this an accurate (if somewhat free) translation:
There are two ways of pronouncing polysyllabic words ending in eadh, (a) as agh, with gh sounding as it does at the beginning of words, and (b) as a diphthong, as in the English word height. Generally, the (a) sound occurs where ao sounds as unrounded ú and the (b) sound where ao is pronounced as í.


That is how I understand it, yes. Though, to be clear, I'd phase the last sentence as "Normally, pronunciation (a) is found among those (speakers) for whom ao is pronounced as an unrounded ú and pronunciation (b) for those for whom ao is pronounced as í."

Sectori wrote:If that's accurate: do Ulster people who have í for ao really have [ǝi] for (e)adh? (Examples he gives include ar feadh, is ea(dh), adhradh, and teaghlach, so apparently it's not about word-finality, despite the first sentence, and covers (e)agh.)


My imput is of very limited use here as Ulster Irish is the one I am least acquainted with, but, for example, I know that [ǝi] or something close is the pronunciation in teaghlach for all three major dialect groups. I would imagine the same for "adhradh", based on the pronunciations given for "adhain" and "adhlacóireacht" in this dictionary.
I have never heard any pronunciation for "ea" other than [æ] (or something close), and "feadh" has a mind of its own when it comes to dialectal pronunciations it would seem.

Sectori wrote:I'd expect Ulster to (broadly) be closer to Gaelic than southern dialects, and there's no Gaelic dialect that does this as far as I know (my ear revolts at the idea of [fʲǝi] for feadh).


It is, broadly speaking, closer to Scottish Gaelic varieties than the other two major Irish dialects, but it still has curiosities of its own that differentiate it from any of the other varieties of Gaelic. This wouldn't be the first time I've heard of one of the two more distant-from-Scots-Gaelic dialects of Irish sharing something in common with some Scottish Gaelic dialects that the intervening dialects didn't share.
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Sectori » 2014-11-16, 16:55

This is changing literally everything I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation; what have you guys done to your language??? (I jest, obviously, but actually this does radically change what I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation.)

"[tʲǝila(x)]" indeed. (Also, that dictionary does in fact give [ɛr fʲǝi] for "ar feadh" in Ulster. What.)
tha dannsa nad ghluasadan,
’s bàrdachd neònach air cùl do bhruidhinn,
anns na faclan nach abair thu idir.

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-11-16, 17:09

Sectori wrote:This is changing literally everything I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation; what have you guys done to your language??? (I jest, obviously, but actually this does radically change what I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation.)


Literally exactly what I think when I hear Scots Gaelic. Absolutely baffling. :)

Sectori wrote:"[tʲǝila(x)]" indeed. (Also, that dictionary does in fact give [ɛr fʲǝi] for "ar feadh" in Ulster. What.)


If you want a good overview of Irish phonology you can get yourself a copy of Modern Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail. I have it, I have yet to go through it properly (phonology is not my greatest strength when it comes to linguistics).
That's weird about ar feadh, because feadh on its own has a different pronunciation :hmm:
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Sectori » 2014-11-16, 17:25

Ciarán12 wrote:
Sectori wrote:This is changing literally everything I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation; what have you guys done to your language??? (I jest, obviously, but actually this does radically change what I thought I knew about Irish pronunciation.)

Literally exactly what I think when I hear Scots Gaelic. Absolutely baffling. :)
I feel like Gaelic's consonants make more sense than Irish, but obviously I'm a little biased. :P
Ciarán12 wrote:
Sectori wrote:"[tʲǝila(x)]" indeed. (Also, that dictionary does in fact give [ɛr fʲǝi] for "ar feadh" in Ulster. What.)

If you want a good overview of Irish phonology you can get yourself a copy of Modern Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail. I have it, I have yet to go through it properly (phonology is not my greatest strength when it comes to linguistics).
That's weird about ar feadh, because feadh on its own has a different pronunciation :hmm:
I'm pretty sure I've looked at it in the past, but at the time I was more focused on the morphology section than the phonology. It's in the library here, in any case, so I guess I'll have to check it out again next week.
tha dannsa nad ghluasadan,
’s bàrdachd neònach air cùl do bhruidhinn,
anns na faclan nach abair thu idir.

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-02-01, 2:58

Táim in ndiaidh cóipe den leagan Gaelach atá ar "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" a cheannach agus an chéad caibidil léite agam cheana féin. Is maith an caighdeán dom é, níl sí ródheacair. Ach is léir go bhfuil Gaeilge Uladh ag an aistritheoir, tá a lán rudaí inti a chuir mearbhall orm (nó a bhí cuma aisteach orthu dom, ar aon nós).
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-23, 21:59

An bhfuil tú á léamh fós, a Chiaráin?

Táim ag déanamh dearmhad ar mo chuidse Gaelainne. Do thugas iarracht ar an chéad caibidil den Bhéal bocht cupla oíche ó shin agus is beag an chiall a bhí á buint aisti agam. Sé an chuid is measa go raibh aithne ar mórchuid desna focail agam, ach bhí a mbrí glan as mo mheabhair. Nach bocht an scéal é!
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-02-23, 23:59

linguoboy wrote:An bhfuil tú á léamh fós, a Chiaráin?


Táim, agus dea-chuid léite agam anois, caithfidh mé a rá. Ach tá maolú t'réis teacht ar mo chuid staidéir Ghaeilge de cheal ama, ní foláir dom m'aird a dhíriú ar an Seapáinis ar son mo chuid oibre.

linguoboy wrote:Táim ag déanamh dearmhad ar mo chuidse Gaelainne. Do thugas iarracht ar an chéad caibidil den Bhéal bocht cupla oíche ó shin agus is beag an chiall a bhí á buint aisti agam.


Tá cóip di agamsa leis, ní dhearna mé aon iarracht uirthi go fóill ach tá sí ar an liosta. Nár léigh tú cheana féin í? Níl a fhios agam cén fáth, ach cheap mé go ndúirt tú gur léigh tú í.

linguoboy wrote:Sé an chuid is measa go raibh aithne ar mórchuid desna focail agam, ach bhí a mbrí glan as mo mheabhair. Nach bocht an scéal é!


Agus is scéal é lena bhfuilim róchleachta. Is cuma cé mhéid ama a chaithim ag déanamh staidéir ar liostaí focal, nó fiú amháin má bím ag léamh agus ag teacht ar fhocail a bhfuil aithne agam orthu ó leabhar eile, titeann siad as mo chloigeann chomh luaithe agus a léim iad.

Táim i ndiaidh sracfhéachaint a thabhairt ar an chéad caibidil, agus caithfidh mé a rá, má bhí aithne agat ar mórchuid de na focail inti, tá do chuid Gaeilge níos fearr ná mo chuidse fós.

Seachas na leabhair atá agat agus an fóram seo, an bhfuil aon deis eile agat ar úsáid na teanga?
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-25, 17:40

Ciarán12 wrote:Nár léigh tú cheana féin í? Níl a fhios agam cén fáth, ach cheap mé go ndúirt tú gur léigh tú í.
Léigheas i mBéarla í. Léigheas an tromchuid dí i nGaelainn leis. Is cupla bliain nár fhéachas uirthi.

Ciarán12 wrote:Seachas na leabhair atá agat agus an fóram seo, an bhfuil aon deis eile agat ar úsáid na teanga?
Ní féidir. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil Gaeilgeorí i Siocágo ach níl aithne ar éine acu agam.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Evenfall » 2015-03-14, 11:55

hey,

I'm sorry to burst in but I have a question! :)

I was trying to learn some Gaeilge with help of the website duolingo and I think I know some easy sentences now like Is bean mé and so on, but I guess I really need some more resources when it comes to the grammar. I was quite fine with the explanations on the website until the lenition-thing started. And I really don't get why sometimes there is an extra-h in the word and sometimes there's not. And I think this will not be the last problem.

So does anyone know if there's a good online resource for Irish Grammar? (Either Irish-German or Irish-English)?

Go raibh maith agaibh!

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby iodalach93 » 2015-03-14, 12:16

Dia duit, a Evenfall!

Try this -> http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm.

:)
 (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (sv) Snälla, rätta till mina fel.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid earráidí, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Evenfall » 2015-03-14, 15:12

Oh yeah, that looks fine, I will check it out :)

Go raibh maith agat! :)

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Elaine » 2015-03-14, 18:36

Evenfall wrote:Oh yeah, that looks fine, I will check it out :)

Go raibh maith agat! :)


Since you're a German speaker, this site would help you better, and this is the original and the up-to-date version:
http://braesicke.de/gram.htm

The link that Alex gave to you is an English translation of the German one and it's not as up-to-date as the German one.
Native:  (tr)
Advanced:  (el)
Intermediate:  (fi)  (ka)  (en)  (id)
Learning:  (hy)  (ar)  (ar-eg)  (ar-iq)

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby kevin » 2015-03-14, 21:53

I couldn't recommend anything better, I love this grammar. That is, the German original. I have had an occasional look at the English translation when quoting something for English speakers, and I had the impression that it doesn't work quite as well, because the explanations and examples are really made to compare German and Irish, not English and Irish.

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Evenfall » 2015-03-15, 1:05

Oh, that's even better since I don't have to think in English then - thank you very much, I think this will be very helpful :)

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-10-14, 19:23

Táim ar ais arís! Conas atá cursaí libh le déanaí?
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby linguoboy » 2015-10-15, 15:39

'Sé do bheatha, a chara! Do mhothas uaim thú! Go háirithe ar na mallaibh, toisc go bhfuilim ag déanamh dianstaidéir ar an dteangain gheall ar chomhdháil a tharla le gairid.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Tar anseo agus labhair linn! - [Irish Language Discussion]

Postby IpseDixit » 2016-07-14, 10:44

Hi everyone, I'm not interested in learning Irish (well, not for now at least), but I have a burning curiosity to know why sometimes there's a capital letter in the middle of a word, can you explain to me why that is and what its use is?


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