Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

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Massimiliano B
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Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-03, 11:29

I'm working on Yucatec Maya for one month - or maybe three months.

Some Yucatec Maya consonants have an accent mark after them. These are glottalized consonants:

ch’, k’, p’, t’ and ts’ .

I like languages with glottalized consonants. These sounds give a language a special "flavour" that is irresistible to my ears :).

księżycowy

Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2012-08-04, 23:21

Good luck Massimiliano, and have fun! :D

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-05, 22:12

Here are my internet resources:


http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/index_01.html

http://www.famsi.org/research/bolles/grammar/index.html

http://www.christianlehmann.eu/ling/spr ... index.html


There is also a Wikimedia Incubator in Yucatec Mayan:

http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/ ... il_Ju%27un


This language has tones! It's the first time I study (or better, I try to study) a tonal language. I think such a feature adds a difficulty in learning a language.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-07, 12:45

I'm studying the alphabet here:

http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/lecc01_1.html

I've never studied Spanish, but I understand almost everything because my mother tongue is Italian :) .

The tones are always on long vowels:
Áak (turtle): the first 'a' is higher than the second.

It's difficult to catch the difference between tones with glottalized vowel (= a'a, e'e, i'i, o'o, u'u). Here, I can hear the highest tone is on the second vowel, but I'm not sure:

Neutral tone (acento neutral): A'al (to say).

High tone (acento alto): T'u'ul (rabbit)

Low tone (acento bajo): Cha'an (party)

The problem is that the tones are not marked in this case.

księżycowy

Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2012-08-07, 12:51

Very interesting. I never knew that any of the Mayan languages had tones. I had always assumed that they didn't. The one I have a book for, Kaqchikel, doesn't have any.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-07, 12:58

Only Yucatec Maya, Uspantek and a dialect of Tzotzil (from Wikipedia) have developed tone.

Tones and glottalized consonants form an amazing combination!

księżycowy

Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2012-08-07, 22:43

Massimiliano B wrote:Tones and glottalized consonants form an amazing combination!

Yes indeed! :D

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-09, 14:22

Today I'm going to study the personal pronouns here:

http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/lecc01_1.html


and the present tense here:

http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/lecc01_2.html


There are two sets of personal pronouns: dependents and independents. The site says the former occur only with verbs in the present tense. So I suppose the latter can appear alone.

There are two present tenses: the "actual" expresses the idea that the action is happening now, at this very moment, and "habitual", when the action is usual.


The independent personal pronouns tèen ("I"; the accent on the e indicates a low tone), tèech ("you"; ch is pronounced like in English), leti' ("he", "she", "it"; this sign ' marks the glottal stop), to'on ("we"), te'ex ("you all"; the x is like the sound "sh" in English), letio'ob ("they") become tene', teche', leti'e', to'one', te'exe', letio'obe when they precede the verb. The dependent personal prouons are in, a, u, k, a, u.

The particle táan indicates that the verb is in the actual present form.

The structure of the actual present is: independent pronoun + táan + dependent pronoun + verb. Here's the conjugation of the verb míis (it means "to sweep". See here: http://www.mayas.uady.mx/diccionario/m_maya.html):

tene' táan in míis
teche' táan a míis
leti'e' táan u míis
to'one' táan k míis
te'exe' táan a míise'ex
letio'obe táan u míiso'ob

Tene' is the independent pronoun and in is the dependent pronoun. literally, the verb sounds like "I now I-verb".

Usually, the independents pronouns are dropped, and the particle táan forms a new word with the dependents pronouns:

tin (from táan in) míis
ta (from táan a) míis
tu (from táan u) míis
t (from táan k) míis
ta (from táan a) míise'ex
tu (from táan u) míiso'ob

Tomorrow I'll study the habitual present :)

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-10, 12:42

Yesterday I forgot to note that when a verb begins with a vowel it adds the prefixes w- or y-. Example:

Tene' táan in wa'alik (short form: tin wa'alik)
Teche' táan a wa'alik (short form: ta wa'alik)
Letie' táan u ya'alik (shot form:r tu ya'alik)
To'one' k a'alik (short form: t a'alik)
Te'exe' táan a wa'alike'ex (short form: ta wa'alike'ex)
Letio'obe' táan u ya'aliko'ob (short form: tu ya'aliko'ob)

Here, the verb is a'alik. The prefixes it adds are w- ar y-, depending on the personal pronoun. First person singular has no prefix. I don't know the meaning of this verb. The site doesn't indicate its meaning.


Habitual present

The habitual present expresses an habitual action. It's easy to form. Replace the t of the particles tin, ta, tu, t, ta, tu of the actual present with the letter k:

kin míis (= I usually sweep)
ka míis
ku míis
k míis
ka míise'ex
ku míiso'ob

So, the habitual present has only the "short form".

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-12, 23:38

Today I've studied the last part of chapter 1. I've studied the possessive adjectives
and the plural of nouns. I've also listened to the dialogue at the end
of the chapter.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-08-24, 14:56

I've tried to translate this dialogue:

http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/lecc01_3.html


H Juàan:
- Ki'ki't'àantabah h Lúuis
= ( Ki'ki't'àantabah is a greeting)

Hi Luis!

H Lúuis:
- Ki'ki't'àantabah H Juàan, ¿tu'ux ka bin?
= (Hi Juan; tu'ux = where; ka = you (present habitual); bin = go)

Hi Juan! Where are you going?

H Juàan:
- Táan in bin ts'òon
( Táan = particle of the actual present; in = I; bin = go; ts'òon = to hunt)

I'm going hunting.

H Lúuis:
- ¿Ba'ax ku ts'o'onol k'áax?
( Ba'ax = what; ku = she/he/it-present habitual. I think this is an impersonal form: “what do one hunt...?”; ts'o'onol (why ts'o'onol?) = to hunt; k'áax = mountain)

What can you hunt on the mountain?

H Juàan:
- Ku ts'o'onol ch'íich', hùuh, bèech' yéetel t'u'ul. ¿Kux tèech, tu'ux a tàal?
(Ku ts'o'onol = one hunts; ch'íich' = sparrow; hùuh = iguana; bèech' = quail; yéetel = and; t'u'ul = rabbit; Kux tèech = and you; tu'ux = where; a = you; tàal = to come)

You can hunt sparrows, iguanas, quails and rabbits. And you, where do you come from?

H Lúuis:
- Tàalen in ch'a' hunkúuch si', utia'al u bèeta'al wàah in hàanteh.
(Tàalen = past tense of tàal = “to come”); in = I; ch'a' = gather; hunkúuch = load; si' = wood, utia'al = in order to; u = ?; bèeta'al = do; wàah = tortilla, omelette; in = ?; hàanteh =?)

I come from gathering a load of wood, in order to do tortillas (...?)

H Juàan:
- Ma'alob beyo' H Lúuis, wa ma'e, ma' tun u ts'áah wàah a na' a hàanteh.
(Ma'alob = good; beyo' so; H Lúuis = , wa ma'e = (conditional); ma' = no; tun = ?; u = he/she/ it; ts'áah = give; wàah = tortilla, omelette; a = your; na' = mother; a = ?; hàanteh = ?)

H Lúuis:
- ¿Bix u k'àaba' le a chan íits'in ku bin ta wéetel ts'òone'?
(Bix = how; u = his/her; k'àaba' = name; le= ?; a = ?; chan = ?; íits'in = brother; ku= (he/she habitual present); bin = go; ta = (you actual present); wéetel = ?; ts'òone'= hunt)

What's the name of your brother who is going (...?) hunting?

H Juàan:
- U k'àaba'e' H Pèedro.
(U = his; k'àaba'e' = name; H Pèedro = Pedro)

His name is Pedro.

H Lúuis:
- Ah bey xan u k'àaba' in wíits'ino'
(Ah = Oh !; bey xan = like that; u = his; k'àaba' = name; in= my; wíits'ino' = little brother)

Oh, my little brother's name is like his name!

H Juàan:
- Pa'atik in bin tin wotoch H Lúuis, tak tu láak' k'ìin
(Pa'atik = to hope; in = I; bin= go; tin wotoch = my house; H Lúuis, tak tu láak' k'ìin = (see you soon?))

I have to go home, see you soon.

H Lúuis:
- Ma'alob tak tu láak' k'íin
(Ma'alob = good; tak tu láak' k'íin = (a greeting ?))

That's good. See you soon!



It still needs improvements. There are some words which appear in different forms (ie ts'òon and ts'o'onol, k'àaba' and k'àaba'e' ) but I don't find an explanation in the site I use.
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2013-07-01, 23:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-09-14, 13:18

In Yucatec Mayan the particle le together with the positional markers -a, -o, and -e, functions like an article, but its real meaning is a demonstrative pronoun. For example, from the word pek (dog) there are the following forms:

le peka = this dog
le peko =that dog
le peke = that dog (out of sight)

The plural of pek is peko'ob. The plural ending -o'ob becomes -ob when a positional marker is added:

le pekoba = these dogs
le pekobo = those dogs
le pekobe =those dogs (out of sight)


The genitive case uses the third person possessive adjectives u in the singular and u (noun)oob in the plural. They are placed in front of the noun which is possessed. The possessor follows the nouns possessed. Examples:

u p'óok Pedro = Pedro's hat (literally: his hat Pedro)

u pek a taatáa = your father's dog (literally: his dog your father)

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-09-23, 20:55

I tried to learn some sentences and vocabulary here: http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/ejelecc01.html:

Ki't'àantabah Felipe = Hi Felipe (literally: good wishes Felipe!);

Tu'ux a tàal? = where do you come from? (Tu'ux = from where; a = you; taal = come);

Tàalen ts'òon = I come from hunting (tàalen =I went; ts'òon = hunting);

¿Ba'ax ta ts'onah? = what did you hunt? (ba'ax = what; ta = (from táan a) you-habitual; ts'onah = (you) hunted);

Tin ts'onah t'u'ul = I hunted rabbit (tin = (from táan in) I-habitual; ts'onah = (I) hunted; t'u'ul = rabbit;


and here: http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/lecc02_1.html:


¿Ba'ax a wòohel a bèeteh? = "What are you able to do?". The verb òohel means "to be able". Prefixes w- and y- are added when the verb begins with a vowel, except the first person plural:

In wòohel míis = I'm able to sweep;

A wòohel pàax = you are able to play an instrument;

U yòohel k'àay =he/she is able to sing;

K òohel míis = we are able to sweep;

K òohel meyah = we are able to work;

U yòohelo'ob k'àay = they are able to sing.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Lauren » 2012-09-23, 21:56

Glad to see you're still learning Yucatec Mayan. I'm having wanderlust for it currently.

Zuk yukateko mayaera ikasteak pozten nau. "Ibili-haragikeria" daukat oraintxe.
Native:            (en-US)
Advanced:       (eu)
Just started:    (cs)
Trans woman  Image

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-09-24, 10:57

We both like Salishan languages and Yucatec Mayan! We have a similar taste for languages!

[flag]it[/flag] Sia a me che a te piacciono le lingue salish e il maya yucateco! Abbiamo gusti simili per le lingue!

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-06-29, 18:42

I would like to translate the following dialogue (taken from here: http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/lecc02_1.html):



PEDRO:
- ¿Bix a bèel h José?
JOSE :
- Tòoh in wòol, ¿Kux tèech?
PEDRO :
- Beyxan tèen, tòoh in wóol.
JOSE :
- Kux a tàatah yéetel a na', ¿bix u bèelo'ob?
PEDRO:
- Letio'obe' tòoh yóolo'ob xan. José, ¿ku bin a pàalal xòok?
JOSE :
- Chéen huntúul ku bini', le uláak' ka'atúulo' ma' tu bino'ob xòok.
PEDRO:
- ¿Ba'axten ma' tan u bino'ob xòok?
JOSE :
- Tumen k'abéet u yáantikeno'ob meyah.
PEDRO:
- Ma'alob ka u yáantecho'ob, ba'ale' hach k'abéet u kaniko'ob xòok.
JOSE :
- Ha'alil ka in túuchto'ob oknak k'ìine', beyo' ku meyaho'ob bul k'ìine', oknak k'ìin túune' ku bino'ob xòok.
PEDRO:
- Ma'alob, túuchto'ob xòok.He' in wa'alik ti le ah ka'ansah, ka ts'a'abak u ts'albil hu'uno'obo'.
JOSE :
- ¿Teche' Pedro ka láah túuchtik a pàalal xòok?
PEDRO:
- Ku láah bino'ob, tak tèen kin bin, yéetel in watàan xòok.
JOSE :
- He'elo' míin yàan in bin yéetel le pàalalo', yo'olal u kaniko'ob xòok.
PEDRO:
- Ka xi'ike'ex, ti' kin in wile'ex tu nahil xòoke'.
JOSE :
- Ma'alob he' k bine'.
PEDRO:
- José, ¿bix u k'àaba' le pàalal ma'atech u bino'ob xòoko'?
JOSE :
- U k'àaba'o'obe' Carlos yéetel Jorge.
PEDRO:
- ¿Kux a watàan, bix u k'àaba'?
JOSE :
- Leti'e x Paula Noh.
PEDRO:
- Ts'o'ok in ts'íibtik u k'àaba'o'ob, pa'atik in bin.
JOSE :
- Hach Dyos bo'otik h Pedro, òok'in k ilikbah tu nahil xòok

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby johnklepac » 2013-07-01, 17:46

księżycowy wrote:Very interesting. I never knew that any of the Mayan languages had tones. I had always assumed that they didn't. The one I have a book for, Kaqchikel, doesn't have any.

Yeah, neither did I. If I was to learn a Mayan language, it'd be this one.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Lur » 2013-07-23, 14:31

The tones are a development of the long vowels. The long vowels descent directly from proto-Mayan and were either maintained, cut short or turned into diphtongs in other branches. I seem to remember that Kaqchikel doesn't have them but I'm not sure. I think the Cholan branch lost them too.


Most I've heard from this language family is an aural orgasm anyway.
Geurea dena lapurtzen uzteagatik, geure izaerari uko egiteagatik.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2013-07-23, 18:26

Not Kaqchikel doesn't have long vowels. It has different vowel qualities, like ä and ü.

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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-07-23, 22:51

Lur wrote:The tones are a development of the long vowels. The long vowels descent directly from proto-Mayan and were either maintained, cut short or turned into diphtongs in other branches. I seem to remember that Kaqchikel doesn't have them but I'm not sure. I think the Cholan branch lost them too.


I read on Wikipedia that «Yucatec Maya is one of only three Mayan languages to have developed tone, the others being Uspantek and one dialect of Tzotzil».


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