Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

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Massimiliano B
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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-07-27, 15:56

I'll translate the first part of a dialogue taken from here: http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/lecc02_1.html:



PEDRO:
- ¿Bix a bèel h José?
- How are you, José?

JOSE :
- Tòoh in wòol, ¿Kux tèech?
- I'm fine, and you?

PEDRO :
- Beyxan tèen, tòoh in wóol.
- Me too, I'm fine.

JOSE :
- Kux a tàatah yéetel a na', ¿bix u bèelo'ob?
- And your father and your mother, how are they?

PEDRO:
- Letio'obe' tòoh yóolo'ob xan. José, ¿ku bin a pàalal xòok?
- They are fine too. José, do your children go to school?

JOSE :
- Chéen huntúul ku bini', le uláak' ka'atúulo' ma' tu bino'ob xòok.
- Only one [of them] goes [to school], the other two [children] don't go to school.

PEDRO:
- ¿Ba'axten ma' tan u bino'ob xòok?
- Why don't they go to school?

JOSE :
- Tumen k'abéet u yáantikeno'ob meyah.
- Because it's necessary that they help me to work.

PEDRO:
- Ma'alob ka u yáantecho'ob, ba'ale' hach k'abéet u kaniko'ob xòok.
- It's good that they help, but it's more necessary that they learn how to study.

JOSE :
- Ha'alil ka in túuchto'ob oknak k'ìine', beyo' ku meyaho'ob bul k'ìine', oknak k'ìin túune' ku bino'ob xòok.
- At least send them [to school] in the night, so that they work all the day, then in the night they go to school




Vocabulary:

bix = how
a = your
bèel = path
wóol - from óol = health
kux = and
tèech = you
beyxan = too
tàatah = father
na' = mother
letio'obe = they
bin = go
pàalal = children
xòok = school; to study
chéen = only
huntúul = one (it refers only to persons and animals)
uláak = other
ka'atúulo' = two (with persons and animals)
ma' = not
bino'ob = they go
xòok = school; study
ba'axten = why
tumen = because
k'abéet = necessary
yáantikeno'ob = they help
meyah = to work
ma'alob = good
yáantecho'ob = they help
ba'ale' = but
hach = more
kaniko'ob = learn
ha'alil = at least
túuchto'ob = (let them go)
oknak k'ìine' = during the night
beyo' = so
meyaho'ob = they work
bul k'ìine' = all the day
oknak k'ìin = during the night
túune' = then

jumpingbean3000
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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby jumpingbean3000 » 2013-08-02, 15:45

I'm so excited to find another learner of Yucatec Maya! I resurrected my account just to reply to this thread. I just got back from a Mayan summer immersion program in the Yucatan. I have a very basic fluency now, in that I can get the gist of what people are saying to me and respond at conversational speed in a way that at least gets the point across, and understand enough grammar to work through short stories etc. with the aid of a dictionary. If you have any questions on grammar/ vocab/ regional variation, I would be happy to try and help! (If you are still wondering about ts'o'onol from the first page, that is the present passive voice--is hunted. Yucatec Maya loves to use the passive voice, pretty much anywhere the doer of the action is already understood). I could try and connect you with some resources as well, but there are so few that you may very well already know about all of them! I have some parallel texts in spanish/ mayan that I picked up in the Yucatan as well, and since it looks like they aren't available to order online I could maybe scan a couple stories for you to look through, if you were interested. And of course we could always try to chat a bit in Mayan! I would really just be thrilled to continue using the language in whatever way possible, so let me know about whatever you might be interested in, even if its just exchanging greetings. (This offer is open to anyone else who stumbles across this as well).

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Massimiliano B
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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-08-02, 22:32

Hi jumpingbean3000!
My knowledge of Yucatec Mayan is not at a level that would allow me to have conversations. if I make an effort, maybe I will be able do it.
So, ts'o'onol is a passive? Thank you for your explanation. I had thought it could be translated as an impersonal form ("one hunts" , or "you hunt"), which in a sense is similar to the passive.
Thank you for your willingness to help me; every now and then I will ask clarification. I have a question right now :) : what's the meaning of the letter h preceding proper names (see for example «¿Bix a bèel h José?»). I can't find an explanation. Thanks in advance!!
I would be interested in those texts in Spanish/Mayan. It would be very kind of you if you could send them to me!

jumpingbean3000
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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby jumpingbean3000 » 2013-08-05, 18:33

Hey!

The h (sometimes also written as a j) is a gender marker. I think in the past Yucatec Maya had a more extensive gender system, but you see it preserved now mostly in people's names, and words specifying profession/role. J/h is the masculine marker, it is difficult to hear and often dropped completely in speech. x (pronounced sh) is the feminine marker, so you'll see names like xMarcelina or xWendy. As far as professions/roles, you´ll see things like jk´aay: male singer,
xk´aay: female singer, but many people will just say k´aay---singer, and not worry about specifying gender. You'll also see the gender system, mostly the feminine marker, randomly preserved in some nouns, like xkóokay--firefly, or xno´oj, right (as in not left). However, probably because the gender marker is no longer serving much function in speech, the nouns that preserve gender vary widely depending on what town you are in. You will hear instead just kóokay or no´oj depending on the town. If you see nouns starting with an x or j followed by another consonant it is likely a gender marker, so be prepared to encounter those words both ways.

The j/h marker has a couple other uses grammatically, but before names and nouns it is pretty much always gender.

A couple online resources I used a lot in case you don´t know about them:

A spanish-maaya dictionary available online. There are others online but this was the most useful to me:
http://www.uqroo.mx/libros/maya/diccionario.pdf

Online course from University of Chicago: (site definitely has some formatting issues, some lessons are blank but I had no trouble continuing on to later lessons so I'm not sure if there is actually missing material)

http://mahimahi.uchicago.edu/drupal/dig ... ont_matter

It looks like you already are using the Universidad Autónama´s website, which is great for its short texts and small searchable dictionary, and of course its lessons--
http://www.mayas.uady.mx/

some mixed spanish-maaya radio can sometimes be streamed here--
http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xepet.html

I´ll try to pick out some of the shorter parallel texts and send them to you soon, they might be difficult but I can always help if you get stuck. And let me know if you have any other questions!

księżycowy

Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2013-08-05, 23:21

jumpingbean3000 wrote:Online course from University of Chicago: (site definitely has some formatting issues, some lessons are blank but I had no trouble continuing on to later lessons so I'm not sure if there is actually missing material)

http://mahimahi.uchicago.edu/drupal/dig ... ont_matter

That's pretty damn good, in spite of it's issues. :yep:

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Massimiliano B
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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-08-11, 23:48

jumpingbean3000 wrote:Hey!

The h (sometimes also written as a j) is a gender marker.



Thank you for the information! I think I read that it is a gender marker, but I can't remember where.

jumpingbean3000 wrote:I think in the past Yucatec Maya had a more extensive gender system, but you see it preserved now mostly in people's names, and words specifying profession/role. J/h is the masculine marker, it is difficult to hear and often dropped completely in speech. x (pronounced sh) is the feminine marker, so you'll see names like xMarcelina or xWendy. As far as professions/roles, you´ll see things like jk´aay: male singer,
xk´aay: female singer, but many people will just say k´aay---singer, and not worry about specifying gender. You'll also see the gender system, mostly the feminine marker, randomly preserved in some nouns, like xkóokay--firefly, or xno´oj, right (as in not left). However, probably because the gender marker is no longer serving much function in speech, the nouns that preserve gender vary widely depending on what town you are in. You will hear instead just kóokay or no´oj depending on the town. If you see nouns starting with an x or j followed by another consonant it is likely a gender marker, so be prepared to encounter those words both ways.

The j/h marker has a couple other uses grammatically, but before names and nouns it is pretty much always gender.


What a thorough explanation! :) Thanks!


jumpingbean3000 wrote:A couple online resources I used a lot in case you don´t know about them:

A spanish-maaya dictionary available online. There are others online but this was the most useful to me:
http://www.uqroo.mx/libros/maya/diccionario.pdf


I already have the dictionary!

jumpingbean3000 wrote:I´ll try to pick out some of the shorter parallel texts and send them to you soon, they might be difficult but I can always help if you get stuck. And let me know if you have any other questions!


Thanks a lot! It would be interesting!

Thanks!

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Lauren
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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Lauren » 2013-09-21, 2:17

Massimiliano B wrote:
jumpingbean3000 wrote:I´ll try to pick out some of the shorter parallel texts and send them to you soon, they might be difficult but I can always help if you get stuck. And let me know if you have any other questions!


Thanks a lot! It would be interesting!

Thanks!

Hey Massimiliano, did jumpingbean ever send you these texts? If she did, I'd love if you could send them to me. :D
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Massimiliano B
Posts:1962
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Real Name:Massimiliano Bavieri
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Re: Massimiliano - Yucatec Maya

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-09-21, 2:33

No, she didn't. If she will send those text, I'll send them to you!


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