Questions/Help

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ILuvEire
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Questions/Help

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-11-08, 13:26

*EDIT by ksiezycowy:
The title of the thread it says it all. This thread is for asking questions if your looking for guidance in learning (or potentially learning) a NAI language. Or just want general help. Any other general questions are welcome too.

The only reason I'm doing this is I'm noticing the tendency here to open up a new thread to ask a few questions and/or expressing a desire to learn a NAI language. I just don't want half the topics in the subforum being these type of threads (and we did have a few already!).
And now back to ILuvEire's original post: :)
__________________________________________________________________________________

So, I'm trying to pick my languages for next years TAC. I'm planning to choose a Native American one (one of a few I've kept my eye on for quite some time). Now, the big question for me is whether there's a better one to star with, or if I should just hop head first into my favorite.

Right now, I'm debating between Tlingit, Mohawk, Cherokee and Nahuatl. Mostly I'm debating between Mohawk and Nahuatl right now, is there one particularly easier or slightly less terrifying to start with? Particularly if, someday I want to have some knowledge of Tlingit, Mohawk, Cherokee, Nahuatl, Tzitzil Maya, Navajo and Aleut.

I'm siding mostly toward Mohawk right now, if it helps. Iroquoian languages give me butterflies in my stomach <3
Last edited by księżycowy on 2013-05-16, 12:00, edited 7 times in total.
Reason: Added my introduction to the new thread in ILuvEire's original post.
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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-08, 16:03

Well we definitely have a pretty strong interest with Mohawk at the moment. Me and Nero are learning it and Formiko does know some and doesn't mind helping.

The other ones you listed as your strong interests do have some pretty good resources, especially Nahuatl (for classical Nahuatl anyway), and Cherokee, so I suppose it might just come down to preference.

In my experience as far 'easy' NAI languages, Nahuatl is pretty easy (as are most Uto-Aztecan) as far as grammar. Though to be honest, I have more experience with Shoshone then Nahuatl, but they're similar. Mohawk hasn't been too difficult thus far. Cherokee I wouldn't know about. And Tlingit is very hard, just like Navajo or Apache! It's mainly all the verb forms for Athabascan languages that make those hard.

Hope that helps.

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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-08, 16:19

May I also say:
Aleut! :shock:
Interesting choice, as a quick glance over at the Eskimo-Aleut thread will tell you, I've flirted around with a few of those languages. Hoping to get back into those someday soon.
Any particular reasoning for wanting to learn that one?

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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby Nero » 2010-11-08, 21:42

Cherokee is quite interesting, but only because the verbs have so many possible forms that you need a calculator to add them up (we're talking thousands here).

This is directly copied from my "Beginning Cherokee" book (which Formiko called "the only book worth its salt"). And I don't even believe this was the full list:

I see myself: gadagotia
I see you: gvgohtia
I see him/her: tsigotia
I see it: tsigotia

I see you two: advgotia
I see you (plural): istvgotia
I see them (live): gatsigotia
I see them (things): detsigotia

You see me: sgigotia
You see yourself: hadagotia
you see him/her: higo(h)tia
you see it: higotia

You see another and me: sginigotia
You see others and me (us): isgigotia
You see them (living): dehigotia
you see them (living): gahigotia
you see them (things): detsigotia

He/she sees me: agigotia
he/she sees you: tsagotia
he/she sees you: atsigotia
he/she sees him/her: agotia
he/she sees himser/fherself: adagotia

He/she sees you+me: ginigotia
He/she sees you two: sdigotia
he/she sees another+me: oginigotia
He she sees us (them+me): otsigotia
he/she sees you (plural): itsigotia
he/she sees them: dagotia

You and I see him/her/it: igigotia
You and I see ourselves: edadotia
you and I see one another: denadagotia or dosdadagotia
You and I see them (living): genigotia
you and I see them (living or not): denigotia

You two see me: sgninigotia
You two see him/her/it: esdigotia
You two see yourselves: sdadagotia
You two see us (another and me): sginigotia
You two see them: desdigotia

Another and I see you: sdvgotia
Another and I see him/her: osdigotia
another and I see it: osdigotia
Another and I see you-two: sdvgotia
Another and I see ourselves: dosdadagotia
Another and I see you (plural): itsvgotia
another and I see them: dosdigotia

You (plural) see me: isgigoti
you (plural) see him/her: etsigoti

They see me: gvgigotia
They see you: getsagotia
They see him/her: anigoti
They see you and me: geginigoti
they see you two: gesdigoti
they see another and me: gegigotia or gogenigoti
they see you (plural): getsigoti
they see them: danagotia
they see themselves/one another: anadagoti


I will see: datsigoi
I saw: agigohvi
he/she will see: dvgohi
he/she saw: ugohvi
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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-08, 22:10

Nero wrote:Cherokee is quite interesting, but only because the verbs have so many possible forms that you need a calculator to add them up (we're talking thousands here).

This is directly copied from my "Beginning Cherokee" book (which Formiko called "the only book worth its salt").

I'll eventually get around to Cherokee. It's definately on my 'to do list!' Are you talking about Beginning Cherokee by Holmes and Sharp, Nero? (Not that I mean to steal your thread, ILuvEire!)

Getting back to the subject at hand, I'd imagine that Cherokee is similar to Mohawk. Just Cherokee would be more divergent then the others I would suppose.

Also, getting back to your 'easy language' question ILuvEire, we all know that's a VERY subjective topic. What's easy to one, might not be to another.

I'll try to post some sample verbs from Mohawk later to give some parallels/differences.

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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-11-08, 22:35

I suppose easy wasn't a good word, that's not what I'm looking for. More like the best one to ease myself into the world of Native American languages - there are so many crazy foreign concepts that I'm afraid of a mind-fuck :P

For me, almost all of these languages are to get closer to my grandpa. He was a Native American enthusiast, he spoke Aleut, Mohawk, Inuktitut, Nahuatl, Navajo and some Tlingit I believe. I've been exposed to them since I was a wee-lad, and I just want to embrace the languages to remember him. He was such a great guy :)

The other part is that I've decided that next year will be devoted to dead/minority languages - so Irish, Latin and Mohawk/Nahuatl (Tlingit I've thrown out because of the complexity - terrifying place to start!).

I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Mohawk, I've studied a little bit of it, it's nice (if only they wouldn't use such a hideous orthography!)
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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby Nero » 2010-11-08, 23:37

Out of all the languages you listed, I've always thought Nahuatl to be pretty "easy". Maybe it's because I can see the similarities to Klingon ;). At any rate, the other ones may be just as easy (I have only ever seriously studied Lakota, so I wouldn't know :lol: )

I'll eventually get around to Cherokee. It's definately on my 'to do list!' Are you talking about Beginning Cherokee by Holmes and Sharp, Nero? (Not that I mean to steal your thread, ILuvEire!)


The very same! :)
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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-09, 0:31

Nero wrote:Out of all the languages you listed, I've always thought Nahuatl to be pretty "easy". Maybe it's because I can see the similarities to Klingon ;). At any rate, the other ones may be just as easy (I have only ever seriously studied Lakota, so I wouldn't know :lol: )

Yeah, in my experiences with looking at Nahuatl grammar, it does seem easy. And oddly enough it is quite like Klingon. I would imagine that it's very similar to Mongolian (which I do have some minimal experience with) and the Turkic languages. Though Nahuatl doesn't seem to have to worry about any of the vowel harmony of the Turkic/Monglic languages.
All those languages are agglutinative, thus they modify words by adding suffixes. Though I'm far from an expert. :para:

The very same! :)

Cool, I bought the right one! :lol:

So, the verb list I promised (courtesy of Let's Speak Mohawk):
Khninons - I buy
tenihninons - we (you and I) buy
tewahninons - we (you pl. and I) buy
iakenihninons - we (he/she and I) buy
iakwahninons - we (they and I) buy
shninons - you (sing) buy
senihninons - you (dual) buy
sewahninons - you (pl.) buy
rahninons - he buys
nihninons - they (masc. dual) buy
ratihninons - they (masc. pl.) buy
iehninons - she buys
kenihninons - they (fem. dual) buy
kontihninons - they (fem. pl.) buy
kahninons - it buys

Khninons
Khninonh - I did buy
wa'khninon' - I bought
enkhninon' - I will buy
akhinon' - I would buy

And that's with a few other pre/suffixes taken out of the picture (mostly cause they didn't fit with the verb 'to buy'). So that's about what you'll be facing if you learn Mohawk.

The main things you have to worry about is the distiction of the dual and plural, and pronouns that give the meaning they-I, you-she, ect. Such as:
iontiats - they call me
which would be literally: they-I-call

Hope I haven't scared you off!

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Re: ILE's NAIL Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-11, 22:26

Saw you have Mohawk on your TAC 2011, ILuvEire! Great to have you on board!

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Help me learn a language any language.

Postby johnH » 2010-11-16, 14:38

‹(O.o)› Well okay teach me. Teach me, but any native american language will do as long as it results, in being able to speak to native americans in their native tong.
‹·—·› I haven't begun any so… really start with any. by the way theirs this one with a-lot of nasal sounds and what seams like a really complex grammar·, which ever languages… are described perfectly by that begin with those.
‹·—·› Suggestion would be to look at my profile :yep: .(·—·)› because those are the languages I already decided to like. Let’s start with Inuktitut, then go from there.
Last edited by johnH on 2010-11-16, 15:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby loqu » 2010-11-16, 14:57

How old are you?
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.

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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby johnH » 2010-11-16, 15:06

·— 19. Why do you ask? I’m quite serious, I do have problem deciding on a language to choose. ‹(0o)› And I’d be pleased to learn of the languages. :yep:
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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-16, 15:55

I can't personally help you learn any, nor do I know anyone (with perhaps the exception of either Formiko (-->Cherokee) or Tukkumminnguaq (-->Aleut/Greenlandic/Inuktitut) if their willing) to help you with any that are on your profile. I have posted some great resources in the 'Learning Resources' thread. I encourage you to look them over.

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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby johnH » 2010-11-16, 17:13

Doing so,‹(·—·)›' Can you or anyone-else explain all of the verb suffixes of Inuktitut, listed on the first lesson?, inuttikut
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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-16, 17:17

For any Eskimo-Aleut languages you should ask for help at the Eskimo-Aleut sub-forum.

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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby johnH » 2010-11-17, 11:13

Cann I aks here and their about the various verb forms, in inuktitut.
What are the verb conjugations and how are they derived from each other.
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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby księżycowy » 2010-11-17, 20:14

Sorry, but I don't think you'll get much help on that here.
I tried learning Inuktitut before, but I didn't get that far, nor do I really remember that much (if any) . . . :?
The main things you can ask for help here are for Mohawk, Cherokee, Tlingit, and Lakota for now (hope I didn't forget any). Not much else.
We mainly take care of the indigenous languages of America and Canada here, excluding the Eskimo-Aleut languages since they have their own sub-forum.

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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby ᏩᏯᏩᏯ » 2010-12-09, 6:58

johnH wrote:‹(O.o)› Well okay teach me. Teach me, but any native american language will do as long as it results, in being able to speak to native americans in their native tong.
‹·—·› I haven't begun any so… really start with any. by the way theirs this one with a-lot of nasal sounds and what seams like a really complex grammar·, which ever languages… are described perfectly by that begin with those.
‹·—·› Suggestion would be to look at my profile :yep: .(·—·)› because those are the languages I already decided to like. Let’s start with Inuktitut, then go from there.



Try http://www.cherokeelessons.com/ if you think Cherokee might be of interest.

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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby johnH » 2010-12-09, 10:30

Thanks a-lot By the way I like your name how do you ah pronounce it?,
((I simply looked up a code chart not good for accurate pronounciation,
is pronounced (wajawaja) ))
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Re: Help me learn a language any language.

Postby ᏩᏯᏩᏯ » 2010-12-09, 12:37

johnH wrote:Thanks a-lot By the way I like your name how do you ah pronounce it?,
((I simply looked up a code chart not good for accurate pronounciation,
is pronounced (wajawaja) ))


a from father.

wa-hya (it is doubled up because the forum system does not like two "letter" names)


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