ᏣᎳᎩ / Cherokee

[Mol_Bolom]

But, with the audio exercises I have created, (short sample attached), to match the written copy, are the following sentence structures valid? Or would the length of the subject cause it to be placed after the verb or some other construction?


17. Igada tsunatana awi ilvsgi tsuwoduhi gugu duniduliha.
18. Igada tsunatana dili tsiquisdi digigage gugu duniduliha.
19. Igada tsunatana doya ilvsgi tsunsdi dili duniduliha.
20. Tsiquisdi tsunsdi awi tsiquisdi tsunatana doya danigotiha.

3-14-6-400-translations.mp3

I am preparing materials to hand out this SAT, Jun 12, so any checks before then would be a good thing.

Haven't been home in awhile, but am checking it now...

Not bad. The grammar was correct for most of it, and after playing it several times, I was able to understand it quite well.

igada doya tali igatsusdi gugu dunaduliha.
iga is not necessary, but it's fine as is.

hilvsgi/ilvsgi should be hilvsgini/ilvsgini for "several/few" living things.

igada unililotsvi gugu detsigotiha.
-uni- is used for animate plural objects. Unless these bottles are alive, it would probably be better to use "tsulilotsvi", .

In reference to my just previous post, I am reading through the Beginning Cherokee book by Mrs. Holmes, and came across the following examples which show English look structure for 3 of the examples...

Disregard what I said about hilvsgi. I don't believe that the dialect in Beginning Cherokee uses the animate plural with it.

pp111-112

A brown baby sees a big eagle. Uwodige usdi utana wohali agotia.
The brown babies see big eagles. Uniwodige tsunsdi danigotia tsuntana wohali.

The big eagle sees a brown squirrel. Utana wohali agotia uwodige saloli.
The big eagles see brown squirrels. Tsuntana wohali danigotia uniwodige saloli.

The black dog sees a brown shoe. Agvhnige gitli uwodige alasulo agotia.
The black dogs see brown shoes. Anigvhnige getli danigotia tsuwodige dilasulo.

-But-

The brown baby sees some big eagles. Uwodige usdi tsuntana wohali dagotia.
The brown babies see a big eagle. Uniwodige tsunsdi utana wohali anigotia.

Now, when referring to the Durbin Feeling dictionary, p353:

... the subject of the sentence ordinarily precedes the verb with its modifiers and objects ... objects of verbs ordinarily precede the verb, resulting in subject-object-verb word order in sentences like (1a); the inversion of this order is possible, yielding the pattern object-verb-subject, as in (1b).

1a: Asgaya wesa agowhtiha. A man sees a cat.
1b: Wesa agowhtiha asgaya. A man sees a cat.

The plural subject/object pairs that are in the Holmes book appear wrong to me.


I am thinking they should be:

A brown baby sees a big eagle. Uwodige usdi utana wohali agotia.
The brown babies see big eagles. Uniwodige tsunsdi tsuntana wohali danigotia.
The brown babies see big eagles. Tsuntana wohali danigotia uniwodige tsunsdi.

The big eagle sees a brown squirrel. Utana wohali uwodige saloli agotia.
The big eagles see brown squirrels. Tsuntana wohali uniwodige saloli danigotia.
The big eagles see brown squirrels. Uniwodige saloli danigotia tsuntana wohali.

The black dog sees a brown shoe. Agvhnige gitli uwodige alasulo agotia.
The black dogs see brown shoes. Anigvhnige getli tsuwodige dilasulo danigotia.
The black dogs see brown shoes. Tsuwodige dilasulo danigotia anigvhnige getli.

Actually in simple sentences, it can be SVO (Subject Verb Object). So in all actuality, they are both correct.

The black dogs see brown shoes.
anigvhnage gitli tsuwodige dilasulo danigohtia
anigvhnage gitli danigohtia tsuwodige dilasulo
tsuwodige dilasulo danigohtia anigvhnage gitli.

All three are correct. (By the way, I do think Durbin writes about this in his book somewhere around the page you read. I'll have to search for the pages to see if I can find it. I'm terrible with paperback books, so mine is in several pieces around this room... )...

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Haven't been home in awhile, but am checking it now...

Not bad. The grammar was correct for most of it, and after playing it several times, I was able to understand it quite well.

Thank you, glad to hear that I can be heard at least halfway right.

igada doya tali igatsusdi gugu dunaduliha.
iga is not necessary, but it's fine as is.

-uni- is used for animate plural objects. Unless these bottles are alive, it would probably be better to use "tsulilotsvi", .

Indeed, looks better to me (sounds better also), but, p331 shows unilulovji as being for both animate and inanimate 'paradigm three'. Is this possibly an error in the Durbin Feeling dictionary? or just a dialect difference?

Actually in simple sentences, it can be SVO (Subject Verb Object). So in all actuality, they are both correct.

The black dogs see brown shoes.
anigvhnage gitli tsuwodige dilasulo danigohtia
anigvhnage gitli danigohtia tsuwodige dilasulo
tsuwodige dilasulo danigohtia anigvhnage gitli.

In these cases, I presume the aliveness vs non aliveness of the different clauses determines relationship with the verb. I am more concerned with the constructs that are alive/alive/verb, would the longer sentences naturally put the subject after the verb in your experience? Or is the verb more often than not kept last? (It is not the 100% case that I am after, I am trying to determine probable majority to case to use as primary form in lesson materials.)

All three are correct. (By the way, I do think Durbin writes about this in his book somewhere around the page you read. I'll have to search for the pages to see if I can find it. I'm terrible with paperback books, so mine is in several pieces around this room... )...

p353, he only show object before verb, subject either at front or end.

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Needs to become Tsalagi.

The Wolf Wears Shoes / From "Cherokee Voices", Show #418, pt 1 of 3.

chunk-1.mp3

The Wolf Wears Shoes / From "Cherokee Voices", Show #418, pt 2 of 3.

chunk-2.mp3

The Wolf Wears Shoes / From "Cherokee Voices", Show #418, pt 3 of 3.

chunk-3.mp3

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

A long time ago. (???)
Rabbit and squirrel are standing by a river.
They are conversing.
Up from the river comes beaver.
Beaver is excited.
Beaver is waiving his arms about.
"Hey you guys! Hey you guys!"
Rabbit says to beaver, "What's up?"
Beaver says, "I found something new by the river!"
Beaver says, "Come see it!"
Rabbit, squirrel, and beaver go down to the river.
Wolf sees rabbit, squirrel, and beaver.
Wolf says, "Hey you all, what's going on?"
Rabbit says, "Beaver says something new is by the river!"
Wolf says, "I go with you all."
They all go to the new thing.
Wolf looks carefully at the new thing.
Wolf says, "I recognize this. This is a shoe."
[6m30s]

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Re: Cherokee / The Wolf Wears Shoes / Conversion into lesson material, what I have so far... (not much!) ... I will add as I go along ... if you see error, please advise. Wado!

6.3 The Wolf Wears Shoes

1. A long time ago.

(a) ???

2. Rabbit and squirrel are standing by a river.

(a) Tsisdu saloli-hno uweyv?i analehvsga.

{-hno[also/and]p343}
{alehvsga/p92}



3. They are speaking.

(a) Aniwoniha.

4. Up from the river comes beaver.

5. Beaver is excited.

6. Beaver is waiving his arms about.

7. "Hey you guys! Hey you guys!"

8. Rabbit says to beaver, "What's up?"

9. Beaver says, "I found something new by the river!"

10. Beaver says, "Come see it!"

11. Rabbit, squirrel, and beaver go down to the river.

12. Wolf sees rabbit, squirrel, and beaver.

13. Wolf says, "Hey you all, what's going on?"

14. Rabbit says, "Beaver says something new is by the river!"

15. Wolf says, "I go with you all."

16. They all go to the new thing.

17. Wolf looks carefully at the new thing.

18. Wolf says, "I recognize this. This is a shoe."

[6m30s]

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Re: Cherokee / The Wolf Wears Shoes so far, having to change to fit available grammar learned in book so far.

6.3 The Wolf Wears Shoes

1. A long time ago.

(a) ???

2. Rabbit and squirrel are standing near a river.

(a) Tsisdu saloli {-hno[also/and/p343]} navi uweyv?i[p184] analehvsga [alehvsga/p92] .

3. They are speaking.

(a) Aniwoniha.

4. Up comes beaver.

(a) Tsisdu saloli-hno didla doya galuhga. [didla/p341]

5. Beaver is yelling, "Look! Look!"

(a) Doya gegluhvsga[p118], “Ni! Ni!”

6. Rabbit says, "What's up?"

(a) Tsisdu adiha, “Gado usdi?”

7. Beaver says, "There is something new by the river!"

(a) Doya adiha, “Gohusdi adagei navi uweyv?i”

8. Beaver says, "Go! See it!"

(a) Doya adiha, “Sdena! Sdigowata-hno!”

9. Rabbit, squirrel, and beaver go down to the river.

(a) Tsisdu saloli-hno doya-hno uweyv?i anega.

10. Wolf sees rabbit, squirrel, and beaver.

(a) Waya tsisdu saloli-hno doya-hno dagotiha.

11. Wolf says, "Hey you all, what's going on?"

(a) Waya adiha, “Ni! Gado usdi?”

12. Rabbit says, "Beaver says something new is by the river!"

(a) Tsisdu adiha, “Doya adiha gohusdi adagei navi uweyv?i!”

13. Wolf says, "I am going."

(a) Waya adiha, “Gega”.

14. They all go to the new thing.

(a) Navi gohusdi adagei anega.

15. Wolf sees the new thing.

(a) Waya gohusdi adagei agotiha.

16. Wolf says, "I recognize this. This is a shoe."

(a) Waya adiha, “Jiyoliga. Hi?a alasulo.” [alasulo/dilasulo/p38][hi?a/p129]

[6m30s]

[Mol_Bolom]

Indeed, looks better to me (sounds better also), but, p331 shows unilulovji as being for both animate and inanimate 'paradigm three'. Is this possibly an error in the Durbin Feeling dictionary? or just a dialect difference?

Well, that just maybe the case then. I have seen some strange uses of the pronouns, animate object for an inanimate object, so it is possible. I would have used disegi rather than ulilotsvi, so we can call that a great big question mark.

In these cases, I presume the aliveness vs non aliveness of the different clauses determines relationship with the verb. I am more concerned with the constructs that are alive/alive/verb, would the longer sentences naturally put the subject after the verb in your experience? Or is the verb more often than not kept last? (It is not the 100% case that I am after, I am trying to determine probable majority to case to use as primary form in lesson materials.)

p353, he only show object before verb, subject either at front or end.

Oddly enough, I found that page......

The majority then would be both forms, SOV and OVS. They are both used as often as each other.

Some phrases in Durbin's dictionary. (Note, animate or inanimate is quite frankly unimportant in word ordering).

P. 113:
Ganvgwalosgi osda nidanvneho sogwili junalasulo.
They fix horseshoes at a blacksmith shop.
(Blacksmith Shop they fix horse shoes. Place Verb Object)

Tali nidegaladisdv digoksdi degoksgoi siga.
He smokes two packs of cigarettes in one day.
(two packs cigarettes he smokes one day. Object - Verb - amount of time)

P. 188:
Dlv yega, na'v ijunadali diganelv wigakahvsgo uwetsi ayotli.
Whenever she goes somewhere, she takes her child to her neighbor.
(Someplace if she is going, neighbor she sends her child. Verb Object). This is a rather complex sentence, but it shows a little bit of the variations in the word ordering that can occur. (Note: The reason that I only wrote Verb Object is because there is no benefactive here, so "her child" is the only object that is being implied by the classifier -ka-, and the prefix -wi- is relevant to nav ijunadali diganelv).

P. 56
Hiyoligis kilo asvgwalosgi julvhwsdanehi?
Do you know anyone who works in a sawmill?
(You know someone sawmill worker, Verb Object).

What if Bob knew someone at a Sawmill? Would we then completely reword the sentence?

kilo asvgwalosgi julvhwsdanehi goligi gwagw.
Bob Knows someone who works at a sawmill.

Or could it be the same with Bob being said first?
gwagwi goligi kilo asvgwalosgi julvhwsdanehi.

Then there is...
asvgwalosgi tsulvhwsdanehi gwagwi goligi kilo.
Sawmill worker Bob knows someone.
Asvgwalosgi tsulvhwsdanehi kilo goligi gwagw.
Sawmill worker someone (is) known (by) Bob.

Since worker is a verb, tsulvhwsdanehi, the subject would come last wouldn't it? Or if it is first would it then be correct to say "Asvgwalosgi kilo tsulvhwsdanehi goligi gwagw" (Sawmill someone worker (is) known (by) Bob)?

Well, lost my train of thought again. Um...My son was needing my help and so I completely lost what I was getting at here...Hopefully you can pick out something useful from it...

[Formiko]

My grandmother always used OVS, but a lot of her lady friends when they played Mah Jong (I kid you not)--digwaniyósht, would use SOV. So I'm really not sure if it's a dialectal thing, or just habit. The old timers seem to favor OVS, while "whipper snappers" used SVO following the pattern of English.

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

My grandmother always used OVS, but a lot of her lady friends when they played Mah Jong (I kid you not)--digwaniyósht, would use SOV. So I'm really not sure if it's a dialectal thing, or just habit. The old timers seem to favor OVS, while "whipper snappers" used SVO following the pattern of English.

At least one of my students on Sat, we were covering my section on basic sentences, immediately started favoring O-V-S, almost instinctively it seemed. It also seems to me that the longer the sentence, the easier it is to lose whole phrases when listening to SOV. To closer match the Durbin Feeling dictionary and elder speech, I think I will use SOV for the short sentences (only one or two adj/adv) and OVS for the longer ones (long descriptions for S & O). Though I think I will leave the exercises in CH 5 with the long phrases alone for now. My audio exercises were adjusted to have the phrases introduced as separate items for recognition review before combining them together for total sentence recognition, so I think they will probably be ok.

Oh, and I didn't mean that alive/non-live was part of the word order, I meant that the alive/non-alive helps to provide flexibility to the word order, the SVO sentences I was using as examples all had non-animate objects, therefore implying that the animate phrase portions must the subject by process of elimination.

I also think that Durbin Feeling may have over analyzed the tonal qualities of Cherokee, all the material I have gathered on it so far indicates that only certain tones are actually really there, the rest are just part of overall flow. Kind of of like those optional, shifting vowels at the end of so many nouns.

Wado.

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Here is the update on "The Wolf Wears Shoes".

I reached the "new vocabulary limit" for Chapter 6, so here is the start of the story that will be included as material for Chapter 6:

Code: Select all

6.2 Vocabulary

6.2.1 ale/-hno



Translate the following into English. If necessary, you can refer
to the bound pronoun prefixes table in Section [sec:Bound-Pronouns-and]
 and the basic verb plural rules in Section [sec:It-vs-Them].

1.     

6.2.2 Verbs

Start a new deck of vocabulary flash cards with the following
vocabulary. With your study group, practice saying the Cherokee
for the English, and the English for the Cherokee with the flash
cards.


+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| Pronunciation  | Syllabary  | English Translation  | Reference |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| uwohla         | ᎤᏬᏝ        | he sits              |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| gehluhvsga     | ᎨᏡᎲᏍᎦ      | he yells             |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| a-di-ha        | ᎠᏗᎠ        | he says              |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| e:ga           | ᎡᎦ         | he goes              |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+


Translate the following into English. If necessary, you can refer
to the bound pronoun prefixes table in Section [sec:Bound-Pronouns-and]
 and the basic verb plural rules in Section [sec:It-vs-Them].

1.     

6.2.3 Other

Start a new deck of vocabulary flash cards with the following
vocabulary. With your study group, practice saying the Cherokee
for the English, and the English for the Cherokee with the flash
cards.


+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| Pronunciation  | Syllabary  | English Translation  | Reference |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| tsi-s-du       | ᏥᏍᏚ        | rabbit               |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| sa-lo-li       | ᏌᎶᎵ        | squirrel             |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| wa-hya         | ᏩᏯ         | wolf                 |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| u-we-yv?i      | ᎤᏪᏴᎢ       | river                |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| a-da-ge-i      | ᎠᏓᎨᎢ       | new                  |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| Ꮎ              | na         | that / those         |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| ᎾᎥᎢ            | navi       | near                 |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+
| didla          | ᏗᏜ         | towards              |           |
+----------------+------------+----------------------+-----------+


6.3 The Wolf Wears Shoes

1. A long time ago.

  (a) ???

2. Rabbit and squirrel are sitting near a river.

  (a) Tsisdu saloli-hno navi uweyv?i unotla.

3. They are speaking.

  (a) Aniwoniha.

4. Beaver goes up to rabbit and squirrel.

  (a) Doya didla tsisdu saloli-hno dega.

5. Beaver is yelling, "Look! Look!"

  (a) Doya gehluhvsga, “Ni! Ni!”

6. Rabbit says, "What's up?"

  (a) Tsisdu adiha, “Gado usdi?”

7. Beaver says, "There is something new by the river!"

  (a) Doya adiha, “Gohusdi adagei navi uweyv?i”

8. Beaver says, "Go and see it!"

  (a) Doya adiha, “Sdena! Sdigowata-hno!”

9. Rabbit, squirrel, and beaver go down to the river.

  (a) Tsisdu saloli-hno doya-hno uweyv?i anega.

10. Wolf sees rabbit, squirrel, and beaver.

  (a) Waya tsisdu saloli-hno doya-hno dagotiha.

11. Wolf says, "Hey you all, what's going on?"

  (a) Waya adiha, “Ni! Gado usdi?”

12. Rabbit says, "Beaver says something new is by the river!"

  (a) Tsisdu adiha, “Doya adiha gohusdi adagei navi uweyv?i!”



[6m30s]


[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Well, that just maybe the case then. I have seen some strange uses of the pronouns, animate object for an inanimate object, so it is possible. I would have used disegi rather than ulilotsvi, so we can call that a great big question mark.

Disegi?

Same kind of crazy or a different kind of crazy?

[Mol_Bolom]

Disegi?

Same kind of crazy or a different kind of crazy?

I'm guessing a different kind of crazy. I know nudantvna isn't right, and have no idea what ulilotsv really translates to, but asegi means weird or strange, and from a few searches looks like it is taking on the meaning of two spirit/gay person, as well.

For the most part, the reason I'd use asegi is because "crazy" seems rather odd, but that's just me, .

I've finally got a decent microphone, so I'm trying to figure out skype or some other way of using it (Mostly going to be used for recording my flutes though). Trying to find a place to store some sound files as well, so I could show you either how badly I speak it or how well, . Don't want to use up Unilang's space, and I don't really have much space on an old web site I've had for several years. Will keep looking for something then I'll start adding some of mine and we could work together on pronunciations (I sure as hell could use the practice while speaking to others than just myself)...

As for SVO, OVS, SOV, I basically stick with OVS myself, however, I do switch between the other two either in rapid speech or for more emphasis. SVO almost always in rapid speech, just because I don't "naturally" think in Cherokee. However, I don't think I use SVO or SOV with negative sentences, only OVS, at least I try to only use that form. It always seems extremely weird and awkward with SVO or SOV.

Anyway, brain isn't thinking too good, which can probably be seen in this considering it is worded horribly. Yeesh...

ᎡᏆᏢᏓᏥ

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Here is a "dropbox" invite:

It allows for a shared folder that synchronizes between two or more computers for two or more people, 2 gigs of sync/backup is free. VERY useful for projects like this. Is Linux ready.

https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTE3MDI1NDI5

FYI, part of your flute music is used as the first track on all the audio disks that I am making.

[Mol_Bolom]

Trying dropbox now. It's interesting. Though, took me a few minutes to figure out how to get it on Slackware without nautilus. Though, unfortunately had to load xfce in order to get it to finish installing correctly...Will have to test it with dwm
and echinus for a while to see what happens.

[Formiko]

Trying dropbox now. I think it's interesting.

Was that your pronunciation?? It sounded flawless!
ᎤᏍᏆᏂᎪᏗ ᎨᎵ!

[Mol_Bolom]

Thanks Formiko, I try . And yep, that's me speaking. ...

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

Trying dropbox now. I think it's interesting.

Was that your pronunciation?? It sounded flawless!
ᎤᏍᏆᏂᎪᏗ ᎨᎵ!

Indeed!

That maybe the voice I need on my audio training disks.

If you do the dropbox thing, we can share all these *large* language files much easier.

[ᏩᏯᏩᏯ]

(I have also noticed some material use "nole", but this is not in my Durbin Feeling dictionary that I can find, is this a variant of "ale" ? )

Any changes need to be made?

6.2 ale/-hno



ale “and”

“Ale” is used to join things, actions, or entire sentences
together they same way “and” is used in English.

Note the position of “ale” in the following examples. The usage
is the same as the word “and” in English.


+----------+------+-----------+---------------+
| Yonega | ale | tsalagi | detsiwoniha. |
+----------+------+-----------+---------------+
| English | and | Cherokee | I speak them. |
+----------+------+-----------+---------------+
| I speak English and Cherokee. |
+---------------------------------------------+



+------------------+----------------+-----------+------+--------+
| Igada ogana | danigotiha | doya | ale | awi |
+------------------+----------------+-----------+------+--------+
| Some groundhogs | they see them | a beaver | and | a deer |
+------------------+----------------+-----------+------+--------+
| A beaver and a deer see some groundhogs. |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+



+---------+---------+-------------+------+---------------+--------------+
| Awi | nvya | agotiha | ale | igada gugu | dagotiha |
+---------+---------+-------------+------+---------------+--------------+
| A deer | a rock | he sees it | and | some bottles | he sees them |
+---------+---------+-------------+------+---------------+--------------+
| A deer sees a rock and also sees some bottles. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+



+-------+-------+-------------+------+---------+--------+----------------+
| Awi | nvya | agotiha | ale | doya | dili | uduliha |
+-------+-------+-------------+------+---------+--------+----------------+
| Deer | rock | he sees it | and | beaver | skunk | he wants him |
+-------+-------+-------------+------+---------+--------+----------------+
| A deer sees a rock and a beaver wants a skunk. |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


-hno “also”

The word ending “-hno” is also used to join things together. It
can be considered to be a combination of “and” and “also”.

Carefuly consider the positioning of “-hno” in the following
sentences. Note that “-hno” is expressed as “and” in the final
English sentences, even though using “also” makes more sense when
looking at the word for word breakdown.

In the following to example, “-hno” is added to the end of the
second object.


+----------+----------------+---------------+
| Yonega | tsalagi-hno | detsiwoniha. |
+----------+----------------+---------------+
| English | Cherokee also | I speak them. |
+----------+----------------+---------------+
| I speak English and Cherokee. |
+-------------------------------------------+


This example demonstrates how “-hno” is used in a sentence with
three or more things.


+------------------+----------------+-----------+---------+-------------+
| Igada ogana | danigotiha | doya | awi | etli-hno |
+------------------+----------------+-----------+---------+-------------+
| some groundhogs | they see them | a beaver | a deer | a mink also |
+------------------+----------------+-----------+---------+-------------+
| A beaver, a deer, and a mink see some groundhogs. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+


Notice how “-hno” follows the action words “sees” and “wants” in
the following sentence. This indicates that the same person or
thing is performing more than one action.


+---------+---------+-------------+---------------+--------------------+
| Awi | nvya | agotiha | igada gugu | duduliha-hno |
+---------+---------+-------------+---------------+--------------------+
| A deer | a rock | he sees it | some bottles | he wants them also |
+---------+---------+-------------+---------------+--------------------+
| A deer sees a rock and also wants some bottles. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+


In the following example, we join two sentences together. Here “
-hno” is added to the end of first word of the second sentence.


+-------+-------+-------------+----------------+--------+---------------+
| Awi | nvya | agotiha | doya-hno | dili | uduliha |
+-------+-------+-------------+----------------+--------+---------------+
| Deer | rock | he sees it | a beaver also | skunk | he wants him |
+-------+-------+-------------+----------------+--------+---------------+
| A deer sees a rock, also, a beaver wants a skunk. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+


Here is the same example, with a slightly different word order
for the second sentence. Notice that “-hno” is still added to the
end of the first word of the second sentence.


+-------+-------+-------------+-------------+---------------+-----------+
| Awi | nvya | agotiha | dili-hno | uduliha | doya |
+-------+-------+-------------+-------------+---------------+-----------+
| Deer | rock | he sees it | skunk also | he wants him | a beaver |
+-------+-------+-------------+-------------+---------------+-----------+
| A deer sees a rock, also, a beaver wants a skunk. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+


Of the two forms, “-hno” and “ale”, “-hno” is normally used in
everyday speech, and “ale” is normally reserved for formal speech
or writings.

[edited: 06/18/10-23:39EDT]

[Formiko]

That's funny, because I use ᎠᎴ for almost everything. (It's probably wrong as heck, but it's common enough) Let's see
juweji ale sigwa hawiya jigisgv'i I ate bacon and eggs.
juweji sigwa hawiyahno jigisgv'i I ate bacon and eggs.
The old folks will always use -hno, while the younger generation will use ale after English.

[Mol_Bolom]

-hno also has the meaning so, so if you see alehno it means something along the line "And so".

Depending on what's being said, and how fast I can think in order to use it, I'll vary between ale and -hno (or in some cases -hnv which flows better in certain sentences).

As for nole, well, that's a dialect thing. There's several dialects which, although, can be very similar, can also be very different.

Look at these sentences.

1. waga hale tuya didigisgvi.
2. waga ale tuya digigisvi
3. waga nole tuya didigisgvi
4. waga tuyahno digigisvi
5. waga tuyagwvhno didigisgvi
6. waga tuyagwuhnv digigvi (digigvi is a variant that Formiko showed me).

Although, they all seem different, they are basically the same. Any dialect can use either of these variants, or more. Such as the dialect I use I could vary between 2, 4, and 5. Why? Well, the first reason is which suffix is used, -sgvi translates more to "Were/was Verb+ing" (didigisgvi = "We were eating them), -svi is the basic past preterite (digigisvi = We ate them), and of course there are several other variants as well.

I've noticed quite a few dialect differences in many of the documents you have on your shared folder ᏩᏯᏩᏯ.

OttersCoatText032210.doc

From the book = My variant ( = another variant) = Translation
uwohwelanvi = uwohwelonvi = Wrote it
unagiele = uhnogisele = Stole it from
una'a = unvha / unv'a = Has flexible object
(Mental note, will need to remember ᏗᎦᏅᎪᎣᏍᎬ "falls from". This is quite interesting).
unawogisdi = uhnawesdi = To take off his shirt/coat (NOW here's a good candidate to show a difference between suffixes. -gi-, which is used in the word ahnigia "He is leaving", is not used with uhnawo "His shirt", and -o- is not retained, in Durbin's dialect, which another variant of the "reversive" suffix is used, -e-).
agoselei = agoselei = ?o'elei = Told (I don't remember which pdf file I saw it in, so I can't find the first letters where the ? is, but it's in one of the pdf's in your folder. Though, note that the first two variants use -s- where as the third uses a glottal stop).

I could go on and on, but I'll leave it there. Anyway, once you get more used to the language you can pick up many of these variations fairly easily.

Ehh, can't stay up too long to re-edit this, so hopefully it made enough sense...