Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

DRfacepunch
Posts: 234
Joined: 2007-06-23, 3:44
Real Name: Patrick M
Gender: male
Location: Vancouver Island, バンクーバー島, Vancouverinsaari, Остров Ванку́вер
Country: CA Canada (Canada)
Contact:

Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby DRfacepunch » 2009-03-19, 8:37

I have had a recent urge to study native languages, and this being one of the more spoken, and nice sounding ones caught my attention. Then I noticed that micmac has its own hieroglyphic script. The problem is, I can't find any resources on how either micmac or the hieroglyphs work! does anybody here know micmac or of any resources?

thanks very much, also, what do you think of micmac?
English (native), Russian (studying)

User avatar
ILuvEire
Posts: 10398
Joined: 2007-12-08, 17:41
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-03-19, 15:36

There's always Omniglot.
Last edited by ILuvEire on 2009-03-22, 22:37, edited 1 time in total.
[flag]de[/flag] [flag]da[/flag] [flag]fr-qc[/flag] [flag]haw[/flag] [flag]he[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]
Current focus: [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag]
Facebook | tumblr | Twitter
“We need to make books cool again. If you go home with somebody and they don't have books, don't fuck them.” —John Waters

User avatar
BezierCurve
Posts: 2624
Joined: 2008-03-07, 12:21

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby BezierCurve » 2009-03-19, 16:03

I guess you've already seen this site, but anyways:
http://www.ancientscripts.com/egyptian.html
Brejkam wszystkie rule.

"I love tautologies, they're so ... tautological." Hunef

DRfacepunch
Posts: 234
Joined: 2007-06-23, 3:44
Real Name: Patrick M
Gender: male
Location: Vancouver Island, バンクーバー島, Vancouverinsaari, Остров Ванку́вер
Country: CA Canada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby DRfacepunch » 2009-03-23, 21:59

yes, i saw those. but they don't give any information. just the same examples
English (native), Russian (studying)

User avatar
ILuvEire
Posts: 10398
Joined: 2007-12-08, 17:41
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-05-15, 0:45

GRAMMAR.

Where could I find a grammar of Míkmaq?
[flag]de[/flag] [flag]da[/flag] [flag]fr-qc[/flag] [flag]haw[/flag] [flag]he[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]
Current focus: [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag]
Facebook | tumblr | Twitter
“We need to make books cool again. If you go home with somebody and they don't have books, don't fuck them.” —John Waters

User avatar
Tukkumminnguaq
Posts: 964
Joined: 2009-01-27, 8:44
Real Name: Ippurigakko Ungungei
Gender: male
Location: Hot Pink Road
Country: CA Canada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby Tukkumminnguaq » 2009-05-15, 7:36

Mikmaq's grammar much like Cree's grammar

and you can go google and find Mikmaq's PDF grammar or etc
[flag]en-ca[/flag][flag]sgn[/flag][flag]iu[/flag][flag]kl[/flag][flag]ale[/flag]
[flag]qu[/flag][flag]tr[/flag][flag]yrk[/flag][flag]evn[/flag][flag]ckt[/flag][flag]itl[/flag]

[̲̅̅N̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅b̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅d̲̅][̲̅̅y̲̅] [̲̅̅K̲̅][̲̅̅n̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅w̲̅][̲̅̅s̲̅][̲̅̅.̲̅] [̲̅̅L̲̅][̲̅̅i̲̅][̲̅̅f̲̅][̲̅̅e̲̅] [̲̅̅A̲̅][̲̅̅s̲̅] [̲̅̅T̲̅][̲̅̅h̲̅][̲̅̅e̲̅][̲̅̅y̲̅] [̲̅̅K̲̅][̲̅̅n̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅w̲̅] [̲̅̅I̲̅][̲̅̅t̲̅][̲̅̅.̲̅]

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2013-12-11, 6:07

3+-year bump! :P

So, I remember using this for learning a little Lnuisimk (same as Mi'kmawi'simk), and I want to review the material there:

http://www.firstnationhelp.com/ali/lessons.php

Also, johnnickjeddore's YouTube channel (I think) teaches some Mi'kmaw words.

(The rest of this post is basically just me seeing how much (or rather, how little :P) of this language I can remember and starting to review/relearn, lol).

I remember off the top of my head (even without looking at it) that it begins with these two dialogs with the format "Kwe'." "Kwe'" (i.e. 'Hi'). "Me tal-wlein?" (How are you?) and then either "O' welei (oh, fine)" or "o' mu weleyiw (oh, not well)." The next word it teaches, as I see, is 'thank you'; I think that's wela'lik. Let's check...
Whoops, no. Wela'lin.

'Good morning' is weli eksitpuk. Right?
Nope, eksitpu'k. :lol: Wow, this is going terribly! (I remembered that 'thank you' was similar to the word for 'good' or w/e, and I accidentally saw the first part of this phrase, and even then I couldn't guess haha!).

Oh, right, sit down is pa'si. Totally forgot that.

Yeah, OK, so I went through all these lessons like a year and a half ago, and by now, I've forgotten almost everything. :P Time to relearn!

OK, so: Wela'lin. Weli eksitpu'k. Pa'si.
Yep. :lol:
Oh, and 'may I go to the washroom?' is "Kisi aji aqua'sites?"

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2013-12-17, 0:55

OK, remembered all of that and elien for 'you are going'. Forgot that tami is 'where to' (but remember that ta'n is 'where'). 'I'm going to town' is kjikank eliey; totally forgot that, too, along with all of the following:

Ta'nuk apaja'sitesk? 'When will you return?'
Apukjik apaja'sites. 'I'll be back soon.'
A', nmu'ltes. 'OK, I'll see you.'

księżycowy
Posts: 8349
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby księżycowy » 2013-12-17, 22:16

Learning some Micmac, Vijay?

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2013-12-23, 1:37

Thanks for asking, and sorry I took so long to come back to this! I guess I'm sort of learning it, along with Michif. TBH, though, I don't know whether I can say I'm "learning" it per se...more like re-learning old stuff that I had already learned earlier (when I went through all their lessons)! :lol:

Once I'm done with that, I'll probably go through some of the other stuff on that website and also look for linguistics papers on the language, hopefully with glossed examples. (I'm sorry, I don't like to call it "Micmac." It sounds too much like "knick-knack"! :lol:). Using linguistics papers might sound like a crazy idea, but I've already tried that with Guarani and had (I believe) at least some success. (I think the only reason why I didn't have much success is because I had to abandon everything I'd been using to study Guarani when I went on a trip with my parents, and then when I got back, I forgot where I'd left off, had too much to review, and basically just dropped it. I hope that won't happen again here, although who knows?).

Anyway. It looks like I've managed to remember everything I reviewed here so far (though I didn't mention the word weliaq 'you're welcome', and it took me a while to remember that word).

The next lesson is about which grade you're in. Totally forgot these expressions; in fact, I'm not sure how I'll remember them! :P

Ta'sewey ktui'katikn? 'Which grade are you in?'
Si'stewey 'Grade three'

Also, contrary to what I thought I remembered, ta'n does NOT mean 'where'; it means 'when', and tami means 'where' (not 'where to', although it seems as if it can mean that as well, just like in English).

księżycowy
Posts: 8349
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby księżycowy » 2013-12-23, 11:27

That's cool. I've been reading your posts here and in the Cuzco Quechua thread, and have found them interesting.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2013-12-23, 23:09

Thanks! I'm glad you like them! I was thinking, at least initially, that I might make another thread for Media Lengua as well, but it looks like I'm basically learning that (or at least something that has been claimed to be Media Lengua) through Quechua, since I already speak Spanish. (Media Lengua also kind of forces me to look at Ecuadorian varieties of Quechua as well, rather than just the Cuzco variety). I've also been writing about Michif, just in case you're interested. I suppose it doesn't really have much that's interesting yet, but there is one dialog I discuss there, most of which I've never been able to figure out.

Anyway, yeah, I'm generally just trying to expand the range of languages I know outside Bantu and Eurasian languages. :D (That's why I'm also writing about Oirata in the Papuan languages thread).

księżycowy
Posts: 8349
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby księżycowy » 2013-12-24, 10:48

That's one thing I hope to do, go beyond Indo-European and Northwest Semitic. I plan to get back to Yupik by January, so that should help.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2013-12-25, 6:06

Cool! I started to write a longer reply about that, but I think I'll put it in your Yupik thread instead. :D

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-01-06, 6:48

Oh geez, I haven't said a word about this language since Christmas! :para: Well, I guess that's just what happens when you try to juggle waaaay too many languages and that kind of defines your life. :P I hope I remember what I reviewed! Let's take a look. :lol:

OK, apparently, I did manage to remember that. Yay! (Except that I forgot whether the last vowel in piskwa' was short (a) or long (a')). On to lesson 13!

Ta'n pekisinn?- When did you arrive?
Kiskuk pekisin.- I arrived yesterday. So kiskuk = yesterday and pekisin = I arrived (pekisinn = you arrived. So is sinn one syllable or two?...Just one. But sin is clearly much shorter than sinn. Better be careful to make sure a word-final n is kept very short, as opposed to word-final nn!).

"Tami wejien?" means 'where were you?' So "wejien" must mean 'you were'. And I guess 'I was' is "wejiey"?
Yep! "Niknaq wejiey" means 'I was at my house'. So "niknaq" means 'my house'. I'm guessing 'house' might be "iknaq," but I really don't know. It's just a wild guess based on the fact that n- in various languages indicates 1SG.POSS.

"Teke'k" means 'it's cold'.

I'm going to skip lessons 16-17 because I've long memorized that entire sequence ever since I found it on a quiz on Omniglot, memorized it way more quickly than I would've guessed, and thought, "Wow! That was so easy! I should try going through the other lessons on this website!" :lol:

Well, there are two phrases I almost forgot:
(E'e), kewisn. = (Yes), I'm hungry.
Koqoey ketutmn? = What would you like?

All right. Now "talueken?" means 'what are you doing?' "Elukwey" means 'I'm working'. I'm pretty sure those two words are related. (I just know I've checked before! :lol:).

Koqoey elukwatmn? = What are you working on?
Homeworkm elukwatm. = I'm working on my homework.

Then "kisa'tutesk" means 'you will finish', I guess. "Ka'lewa'litesk" means 'you'll call me'. "Ka'lewa'lultes" = 'I'll call you'.

So it turns out that lessons 18-21 also form a natural dialog:
- What are you doing?
- I'm working.
- What are you working on?
- I'm working on my homework.
- When will you finish?
- Soon.
- Will you call me?
- OK, I'll call you.

Now in Lnuismk! :lol:
- Talueken?
- Elukwey.
- Koqoey elukwatmn?
- Homeworkm elukwatm.
- Ta'nuk kisa'tutesk?
- Apukjik.
- Ka'lewa'litesk?
- A', ka'lewa'lultes. (I'm pretty sure the "ka'l" part is from English :P).

I think that was a pretty decent-sized stretch of this language for one day! :D

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-01-17, 3:25

OK, this time, I managed to remember almost everything I've covered here so far. The only word I really didn't remember was kiskuk, which anyway I had interpreted wrong in my previous post. It means 'today', not 'yesterday' as I'd previously said.

Going back through those lessons, I'm also beginning to wonder whether maybe ta'n means 'when' when accompanied by a past-tense verb and ta'nuk means 'when' when accompanied by present/future tense. Or maybe ta'n goes with completive aspect? I don't know how TAM (tense/aspect/mood) works in Lnuismk yet. :P

All right, so! Lessons 22-25 also form a sort of dialog, this time about dinner:

- Koqoey wela'kowey? (What's for supper?)
- Ki'kli'kwej. (Chicken).
- O' na katu weliaq. (Oh, that's good).
- Apukjik mijisulti'kw? (Are we eating soon?)
- E'e, apukjik. (Yes, soon).
- O', kewisin. (Oh, I'm hungry).
- Aq elt ni'n. (So am I).
- Kîtu' samuqwan? (Are you thirsty? Or more literally, Would you like (something) to drink?)
- E'e, kîtu' samuqway. (Yes, I'm thirsty/I would like to drink (something)).
- Koqoey kîtu' samuqwan? (What would [you] like to drink?)
- Tekpa'q samuqwan. (Cold water).
- O' wela'lin. (Oh, thank you). [Who knows why the guy's thanking her? Didn't she get her cold water? Or maybe he's thanking her for telling him what she wants. :P]
- O' weliaq. (Oh, you're welcome).

And only five more lessons left after that! Almost done with our review! :D

Ki'kli'kwej 'chicken' is a word that I kind of remember just because it sounded kind of amusing when I listened to it. :P

I think I memorized the whole thing now. That was actually pretty easy! :D So now on to the next lesson (#26)!

Maja'ti'kw?- Shall we leave? A', maja'tinej.- OK, let's leave.

Lesson #27 is nothing new. Nmu'ltes. A', nmu'ltes.

Lesson #28 includes some new vocabulary. Lnui'sin ki'l?- Do you speak Lnuismk? And more importantly:

Kijka'jijk- A little
Nestm, katu mu lnui'siw.- I understand, but [I?] don't speak.

And finally, lesson #29 is wli-npa 'sleep well', which I already know, and the last lesson is:

Kesalul.- I love you.

Awwww! :lol: And I'm done with review now, woohoo!

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 14837
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-01-26, 1:47

All right, so good news for finding new resources for this language! First of all, Grammaire de la langue mikmaque, the first grammar ever written for this language (by Abbé Antoine S. Maillard), is available through Google Books in the original French:

http://books.google.com/books?id=wt1EAA ... &q&f=false

Also, http://migmaq.org/ seems like a really useful website. It even has a grammar wiki, which discusses not only the phonology and syntax but also transliteration systems. The grammar wiki has a cultural introduction as well; I'm pretty sure Abbé Antoine S. Maillard's grammar also has some cultural information. Maillard indicates at the beginning of the book that there is an inclusive/exclusive distinction, saying that kinu is the inclusive pronoun and ninen is exclusive. The grammar wiki confirms this, and from that wiki, I've also learned the animate (I think) 3rd person pronoun: nekm. Second person plural is kilew, and third person plural (again, I think this is animate) is nekmew. No wait, it's nekmow! :P

And yeah, it's just the animate third person pronoun. I also have to take into account the fact that Algonquian languages have an obviate or 4th person; neither that nor inanimate third person can be expressed through pronouns.

Oh my goodness, I almost forgot about this YouTube channel!

https://www.youtube.com/user/dontsleeps ... shelf_id=1

It's not much, really, but it's nice because it's the YouTube channel of this young Mi'kmaw guy who has a lot of "Mi'kmaq Word of the Day" videos. :D I remember learning tapi 'bow' and pitewey 'tea' from that channel, and forgot kwitn 'canoe'. There are other words that should be familiar from that course I'd been going through, too (like pa'si 'sit down' and wela'lin 'thank you').

User avatar
ceid donn
Posts: 1876
Joined: 2008-02-15, 0:58
Real Name: Céid
Gender: female
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby ceid donn » 2014-01-26, 4:48

I've been meaning to mention that wiki to you, but since you've found it, there's no need. :mrgreen:

I have a copy of the Maillard grammar ( I've sitting right next to it right now, in fact) but one word of caution: Mikmaq orthography hasn't been exactly consistant. Many of these early researchers came up with their own orthography and it wasn't until more recently that actual Mikmag have decided on an more standardized orthography. And I have yet to find anything that explains how to take a word in an early orthography and change it to the newer orthography. So just be aware of that.

I don't find 3rd/4th person stuff to be too hard. It's classifiers for numbered objects that I find a little overwhelming. :P

księżycowy
Posts: 8349
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby księżycowy » 2014-01-26, 13:31

This is one of my biggest problems with Micmac. There are few good modern resources. I wonder if they have reposted that teaching grammar over at ERIC yet. I wouldn't mind seeing the Mohawk one there again either.

User avatar
ceid donn
Posts: 1876
Joined: 2008-02-15, 0:58
Real Name: Céid
Gender: female
Contact:

Re: Míkmawísimk / Micmac / hieroglyphs

Postby ceid donn » 2014-01-27, 22:55

Yeah, there are people working on creating more resources but it's slow going because it's mostly volunteers and academics. So you know they just don't have a lot of time or funds. The wiki is a good start but currently is very incomplete.


Return to “North American Indigenous Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest