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księżycowy wrote:Thanks to dEhiN's post here, I'm reminded of how I used to run this TAC stuff. I should really get back to doing it that way. So that's exactly what I'm going to do!
***I'm mainly focusing on Munster Irish and the older literary Irish (which means Dillon & Ó Cróinín) but I figure it can't heart to add some Standard/CO in there every now and again. I also have Ó Sé's Munster grammar, but as that's written in Irish, I can't quite access it yet.
I'm skipping Unit 1 in Basic Irish, as the pronunciation given is based on Connacht Irish, and not Munster. I mean, I want to get into some Connacht Irish, just not yet. One dialect at a time.
księżycowy wrote:An Caighdeán Oifigiúil = CO. Seeing as the abbreviation is based off the Irish name, it's no wonder you couldn't guess it. It's the official "neutral"* form of Irish, rather then the dialectal forms.
One of my favorite examples from Ó Siadhail (and there are many) is:
gnóthaigh /gru:/ - win, gain
I can't find the same word in Munster
*It's very debatable how neutral this form of Irish actually is, let alone authentic. I'll leave it at that, as I wish to not get caught up in the debate.
dEhiN wrote:Wow, and I thought Irish was complicated enough due to its orthography-phonology relationship!
księżycowy wrote:Most standard languages are based on one prestigious dialect (like English, German, French, Japanese, Chinese, etc), where as Irish is based on a blending of all three major dialect groups, to varying degrees of influence. I guess that's why I bothered to even bring it up at all. It's an interesting situation.
księżycowy wrote:There is one thing which make the Irish case different that many other standard languages: Most standard languages are based on one prestigious dialect (like English, German, French, Japanese, Chinese, etc), where as Irish is based on a blending of all three major dialect groups, to varying degrees of influence. I guess that's why I bothered to even bring it up at all. It's an interesting situation.
dEhiN wrote:Also, are the dialects that different in pronunciation?
księżycowy wrote:One of my favorite examples from Ó Siadhail (and there are many) is:
gnóthaigh /gru:/ - win, gain
I can't find the same word in Munster, but a similarly spelled word is:
gnáthbhéile /gnɑ:-vʹe:lʹi/ - ordinary meal
kevin wrote:I'm not an expert for Munster, but I would expect /gno:hig/ there (and /grohi/ in Ulster).
księżycowy wrote:And, as we can also see, vocabulary is different in places in the dialects. The equivalent of the verbal noun "win, gain" in Munster Irish would be formed from baint (which also means "cut"). And this doesn't even speak to grammar differences between the dialects.
IpseDixit wrote:How successful is this standard variety btw? In the other languages that I know have adopted the same policy (i.e: Ladin, Romansh, Sardinian, Basque) it seems that their "conlang standard" never really took hold (although I think that these standards are more recent than the Irish one is).
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