Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

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Koko
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Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-27, 3:43

yo yo yo wassup im back y'all!!!!

I will strongly focus on Italian until later in the year, or at least until i feel very confident in my abilities in it, so that if i pick something else up it won't set me back as much it did last year, and the year before. I haven't even touched conlangs since the start of this year.

I will probably still dabble, as i have just done some stuff tonight with Thai, but nothing like trying to actively learn.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Saim » 2017-01-27, 3:57

Ciao Koko, bentornato! Buona fortuna con il italiano. :)

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-27, 4:20

Saim wrote:Ciao Koko, bentornato! Buona fortuna con il italiano. :)

Ciao Saim! Grazie :D !

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-01-27, 12:13

Hi koko, welcome back and in bocca al lupo with your studies. :) I'll be glad to help. Btw, weren't you supposed to come here in 2016 or is my memory playing tricks on me?

Saim wrote:Ciao Koko, bentornato! Buona fortuna con il italiano. :)


Con l'italiano

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-27, 22:23

IpseDixit wrote:Hi koko, welcome back and in bocca al lupo with your studies. :) I'll be glad to help. Btw, weren't you supposed to come here in 2016 or is my memory playing tricks on me?

Ipse :D ! I was trying to go there last year, but i couldn't pull together enough money to :( So perhaps in a year or two. I really want to get there as soon as possible. It just isn't financially possible yet.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-28, 1:39

Since I have really only been doing review to reintroduce myself to the lexicon and grammar rules i've learned already, I want to address a serious problem in pronunciation that bothers me so much.

/rl/
How in the hell do I say this consonant sequence?! I always just opt for [ll] instead:
Parlo italiano. :arrow: Pallo italiano. (clearly not lol)

I can say something like dirglielo fine, because the lateral isn't alveolar like the /r/.

I'd just really like some tips on this sequence. It's a problem that I had even last year.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-28, 2:58

Apre la porta di casa con la bimba nel passeggino, viene travolta da un cornicione

It took me so embarrassingly long to figure out the "ko" was part of the phrase mandare ko "to knock smo out." :roll: Overall i did a decent job reading this even though i had to look up more than a few words. I also didn't know what a cornice was, so i learned an english word too. Nice. (some of the following words i understood from watching the video or just context)

passeggino - baby carriage
portoncino - gate
cornicione - cornice
staccare - to detach, separate
soccorrere - to help, assist, aid (to come to one's aid)
risarcire - to compensate, reimburse
pari a - equal to

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-28, 3:00

I have a heart! I watched the video before i decided to use the story as a resource. I'm glad she got and is still getting the help she needs. Rimettiti presto, Olga!!

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-01-28, 9:25

Koko wrote:Since I have really only been doing review to reintroduce myself to the lexicon and grammar rules i've learned already, I want to address a serious problem in pronunciation that bothers me so much.

/rl/
How in the hell do I say this consonant sequence?! I always just opt for [ll] instead:
Parlo italiano. :arrow: Pallo italiano. (clearly not lol)

I can say something like dirglielo fine, because the lateral isn't alveolar like the /r/.

I'd just really like some tips on this sequence. It's a problem that I had even last year.


Keep in mind that it's just a flap, not a thrill.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-01-28, 9:35

Koko wrote:Apre la porta di casa con la bimba nel passeggino, viene travolta da un cornicione

It took me so embarrassingly long to figure out the "ko" was part of the phrase mandare ko "to knock smo out." :roll: Overall i did a decent job reading this even though i had to look up more than a few words. I also didn't know what a cornice was, so i learned an english word too. Nice. (some of the following words i understood from watching the video or just context)

passeggino - baby carriage
portoncino - gate
cornicione - cornice
staccare - to detach, separate
soccorrere - to help, assist, aid (to come to one's aid)
risarcire - to compensate, reimburse
pari a - equal to


There's a typo in the article, it's pietra, not petra. And don't worry, it took me a few minutes to understand what mandare ko meant. I would've written K.O. or k.o. (Btw, note that it's pronounced kappa o, with an open o).

The funny thing is that cornice means frame in Italian.

Anyways, cornicione can also mean ledge (of a building).

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Leopejo » 2017-01-28, 10:26

IpseDixit wrote:And don't worry, it took me a few minutes to understand what mandare ko meant. I would've written K.O. or k.o. (Btw, note that it's pronounced kappa o, with an open o)

When I was a child I was convinced KO is simply the opposite of OK. It took me a few years to realize this is not the case.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-28, 16:08

IpseDixit wrote:Keep in mind that it's just a flap, not a thrill.

Really? Didn't know that. But I guess that makes sense.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-28, 18:57

vijayjohn wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Keep in mind that it's just a flap, not a thrill.

Really? Didn't know that. But I guess that makes sense.

Yeah i thought all Italian r's were trills (as i read on multiple sources, but I guess i do hear it as a tap a lot). But it being a flap… makes it even harder :lol: A flap is only one rhotic step from being a lateral :para: Time to admit defeat

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-28, 19:03

Maybe just try pronouncing it like the English word "paddle" + -are but changing the first vowel to an [a]?

EDIT: Wiktionary seems to be saying it's a trill. It may just be pronounced quickly or something though.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-28, 19:10

IpseDixit wrote:There's a typo in the article, it's pietra, not petra.

I noticed that too. It left me at loss for a few seconds.

And don't worry, it took me a few minutes to understand what mandare ko meant. I would've written K.O. or k.o. (Btw, note that it's pronounced kappa o, with an open o).

It's funny cause i saw ko first, since it stood out (how often do you see a k in italian?), and went to wordreference, which gave "KO" as in English. I didn't get it then because i couldn't imagine a news article using that term. It took me a minute of thinking after looking up "mandare" to realize. Is there a difference in "formality" with k.o in italian? Like, does it have a more neutral tone than in English?

The funny thing is that cornice means frame in Italian.

"Frame" is a better description of cornice in English than the definitions given by dictionaries :lol: "big frame" even better

Anyways, cornicione can also mean ledge (of a building).

Noted

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-29, 5:08

vijayjohn wrote:Maybe just try pronouncing it like the English word "paddle" + -are but changing the first vowel to an [a]?

Hmmm, yeah i don't think that helps :lol: I'll try but it just sounds off.

Not to mention that the two phonemes don't even have to be right beside each other, there can be vowel between them and the first that occurs is assimilated to the second one: colore -> [corore] (i hate how the italian keyboard does not have square brackets nor the arrows >.> rude)

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Leopejo » 2017-01-29, 8:55

Koko wrote:(i hate how the italian keyboard does not have square brackets nor the arrows >.> rude)

Hmm, I didn't have this problem when I lived in Italy, but now that I have a US keyboard I can't find the arrows on my Italian layout. Square brackets should be AltGr + 'è' or '+' (that is AltGr and the keys corresponding to [ ] on the US layout).

By the way, I commented on your TAC without introducing myself before, kind of rude. I am, among others, an Italian (a Canadian too!), a friend of dEhiN and a few other Unilang members.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-01-29, 10:55

Koko wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Keep in mind that it's just a flap, not a thrill.

Really? Didn't know that. But I guess that makes sense.

Yeah i thought all Italian r's were trills (as i read on multiple sources, but I guess i do hear it as a tap a lot). But it being a flap… makes it even harder :lol: A flap is only one rhotic step from being a lateral :para: Time to admit defeat


I thought tap and flap were the same thing (and Wikipedia seems to confirm that). Flaps are very frequent in Italian, especially (but not only) in intervocalic position.

In the case of "parlare", you can actually use either a trill or a flap IMO. Personally I think I would use a trill when saying the word in isolation and a flap when speaking normally.

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-29, 13:02

IpseDixit wrote:I thought tap and flap were the same thing (and Wikipedia seems to confirm that).

Not really, although Wiki is probably right about people using those terms indiscriminately. (They're not supposed to be interchangeable AFAIK).

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Re: Koko's Tack for 2017 - Italian

Postby Koko » 2017-01-29, 19:18

Leopejo wrote:Hmm, I didn't have this problem when I lived in Italy, but now that I have a US keyboard I can't find the arrows on my Italian layout. Square brackets should be AltGr + 'è' or '+' (that is AltGr and the keys corresponding to [ ] on the US layout).

The alt key! The underappreciated bugger :lol: I didn't know that, thanks :)

By the way, I commented on your TAC without introducing myself before, kind of rude. I am, among others, an Italian (a Canadian too!), a friend of dEhiN and a few other Unilang members.

hey no problem, everyone's welcome here :D
(Finally there are more Canadians on UL :lol: )

IpseDixit wrote:I thought tap and flap were the same thing (and Wikipedia seems to confirm that). Flaps are very frequent in Italian, especially (but not only) in intervocalic position.

They are (though as vijay points out not necessarily but many use the terms interchangeably). I use the terms interchangeably and so I sometimes switch between the two. Personally i prefer "tap" since it sounds closer to the actual sound.

So then, an italian r is basically a spanish r?


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