TAC 2017 dEhiN

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-23, 9:22

I learnt 5 new Anki words for Feb. 22, but unfortunately didn't finish reviewing them until now (it's about 04:15 Feb. 23). For those who either don't remember or don't know what I mean, when I learn a new card, I have Anki set to use the following steps: 10 120 1440 2880 4320. That means that when the card first appears, if I click good, the card then appears in 10 minutes. The next time I click good, it appears in 120 minutes or 2 hours. (The next time will be in 1 day or 24 hours, then 48 hours, and finally 72 hours). But sometimes what happens is I don't get around to the new cards until 9 or 10 pm at night, which means that either the 2 hour review mark ends up being the next calendar day, or I forget to review at the 2 hours mark and midnight comes and goes.

So, these are the cards for Feb. 22:

 (fr) quelque some
 (fr) souper to have dinner; to dine [used in Canada, Belgium and Switzerland]
 (fr) la maison house

 (pt-br) o frio cold; coldness
 (pt-br) quente/quentes hot; warm [sing./pl.]

Does anyone know if maison can be used for home? Or is domicile the more common word? Merci.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby kevin » 2017-02-23, 9:51

vijayjohn wrote:As far as I can think of, you speak excellent English (or at least write excellent English!) to the point where you might make occasional errors, but they're so rare they look more like typos. I almost have difficulty believing that you're not a native speaker.

In most cases they probably are typos. Anyway, a high level is something different from quick progress. I would actually say that the higher your level is, the slower the progress becomes.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-23, 10:07

dEhiN wrote: (sv) en fader -- faderen (a) father -- the father

So I was checking the pronunciation of fader on Wiktionary and found out the definite singular form should be fadern.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-23, 13:09

That makes sense. Isn't the definite singular formed with just -n if the word it's attaching to is more than one syllable long?
kevin wrote:In most cases they probably are typos. Anyway, a high level is something different from quick progress. I would actually say that the higher your level is, the slower the progress becomes.

Yes, of course. But in English, you did make that progress anyway.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby Car » 2017-02-23, 13:14

dEhiN wrote:Does anyone know if maison can be used for home? Or is domicile the more common word? Merci.

Yes, it's overall used much more, but the two aren't exactly synonyms. Someone else may be able to explain better which word covers which meaning, it seems domicile is used in a couple of legal terms.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby Kenny » 2017-02-23, 13:18

Yeah, also: home delivery - livraison à domicile. But apart from that and the legal usage mentioned by Car, you won't really use domicile. It's usually maison, or even more likely, "chez [moi/toi/lui/elle/nous etc.]" if you want to talk about the place where you live.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-23, 13:55

What about home in the sense of the place where you feel a sense of comfort and belonging. So the figurative sense of home? I know about chez [moi/toi/lui/elle/nous/vous] and I remember seeing livraison à domicile on the French translations of Canada Post stuff.

Also, when maison is used for "home", is it used in a physical sense only?
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-23, 13:57

vijayjohn wrote:That makes sense. Isn't the definite singular formed with just -n if the word it's attaching to is more than one syllable long?

It seems that way; Johanna or Aurinia (or even Cesare if he's still active here) could tell you better. I'm not sure about exceptions, but it generally seems like common nouns just attach -n to the end and neuter nouns attach -t.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby Johanna » 2017-02-23, 16:27

dEhiN wrote: (sv) en hustru -- hustrun (a) wife -- the wife
 (sv) en fader -- fadern (a) father -- the father

Also keep in mind that both of these are rather formal, and I'd say that fader is only really used in a Christian context, either about God, or as a title for priests and abbots in certain denominations, like the Catholic Church.

In any case, the more normal word for wife is fru:

en fru - frun - fruar - fruarna


When it comes to "father" it's a bit trickier, we actually use the equivalent of "dad" even in formal-ish situations, and the word for that is pappa:

en pappa - pappan - pappor - papporna


But if you really want to say "father" in a non-religious context, it's far:

en far - fadern - fäder - fäderna


dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:That makes sense. Isn't the definite singular formed with just -n if the word it's attaching to is more than one syllable long?

It seems that way; Johanna or Aurinia (or even Cesare if he's still active here) could tell you better. I'm not sure about exceptions, but it generally seems like common nouns just attach -n to the end and neuter nouns attach -t.

I don't remember the rules very well, I just go by instinct :P But now when you mention it I think the general rules are these:

  • One syllable
    • Common gender
      • -en when the word ends in a consonant
      • -n when the word ends in a vowel
    • Neuter
      • -et always
  • Several syllables
    • Common gender
      • -n when the word ends in a
        • vowel
        • liquid
      • -en when the word ends in a
        • stop
        • fricative
    • Neuter
      • -t when the word ends in a
        • vowel
      • -et when the word ends in a
        • stop
        • fricative
        • liquid

When the stress falls on the last syllable, the rules for monosyllabic words are used IIRC. There are also cases when a neuter word ends in -el or -er and in the definite it ends up with -let and -ret respectively (for example ett sekel - seklet, and ett kadaver, kadavret), but I don't know what governs this. But it wouldn't surprise me if that too has something to do with stress patterns.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby Dormouse559 » 2017-02-23, 22:21

dEhiN wrote:What about home in the sense of the place where you feel a sense of comfort and belonging. So the figurative sense of home?
I think that would depend on context. Off the top of my head, there's "Make yourself at home", which is usually translated as "Fais comme chez toi". But other uses of "at home" will get different treatments. Were there any usages you had in mind?
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-24, 3:55

Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote:What about home in the sense of the place where you feel a sense of comfort and belonging. So the figurative sense of home?
I think that would depend on context. Off the top of my head, there's "Make yourself at home", which is usually translated as "Fais comme chez toi". But other uses of "at home" will get different treatments. Were there any usages you had in mind?

Par exemple, la phrase « home is where the heart is » . Peut-être je créerai une carte pour maison, une pour domicile, et une pour chez ....
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-24, 4:02

Anki for Feb. 23:

 (fr) la robe dress; robe
 (fr) par ici over here
 (fr) je m'ennuie I'm bored

 (sv) hela whole

 (ta-lk) என்னுடைய my

I've been thinking for a while now to start teaching the Tamil alphabet on my TAC as a way to help anyone who wants to learn, and to at least do some review of Tamil. I keep thinking I should do more than just Anki for studying these 4 languages, but then when I have the time I suddenly get cold feet and don't have the motivation. Oh well, at least even doing 5 new words a day is something better than nothing. Plus I do get to practice writing/reading French and Portuguese on here, the Skype UL group(s), and the Whatsapp (UL) group; and I get to practice speaking/writing/reading Swedish with Johanna through Skype.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-24, 4:03

Maybe you could try practicing your Tamil with me on UniLang! :P
dEhiN wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote:What about home in the sense of the place where you feel a sense of comfort and belonging. So the figurative sense of home?
I think that would depend on context. Off the top of my head, there's "Make yourself at home", which is usually translated as "Fais comme chez toi". But other uses of "at home" will get different treatments. Were there any usages you had in mind?

Par exemple, la phrase « home is where the heart is » .

« On est chez soi là où le cœur s'attache ».

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby Osias » 2017-02-24, 14:23

A maioria das coisas que estão falando pro Francês vale pro português também, o uso de "casa" e "domicílio". Só não tem "chez moi".
2017 est l'année du  (fr) et de l' (de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby Dormouse559 » 2017-02-24, 23:11

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Par exemple, la phrase « home is where the heart is » .

« On est chez soi là où le cœur s'attache ».
Une option que j'ai trouvée dans les forums de WordReference : « Où le cœur aime, là est le foyer ».
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-25, 13:43

Anki for Feb. 24:

 (fr) facilement easily
 (fr) autochtone/autochtones native; aboriginal; indigenous [sing./pl.]
 (fr) la côte coast
 (fr) à in; at; to
 (fr) les them [acc. pl.]
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-26, 2:12

Anki for Feb. 25:

 (fr) la commission commission; committee; shopping; message
 (fr) j'ai / tu as / il;elle;on a / nous avons / vous avez / ils;elles ont [pres. tense ind. for 'avoir']

 (sv) förlovning engagement

 (pt-br) a avó grandmother

 (ta-lk) -உடைய [gen. adj. suffix]


 (ta-lk) என்னுடைய my
As you can see, because the Tamil genitive adjective suffix is -உடைய /uɖe͡ijə/, the written Tamil word for my is long. It's a combination of என்னை /enːe͡i/ (SLT), /jenːe͡i/ (IT) me and -உடைய.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-26, 3:50

I found a good website for learning Tamil pronouns: http://www.aangilam.org/2009/03/27-engl ... nouns.html. It's actually in Tamil and the article is teaching English pronouns to Tamil speakers. But of course that doesn't mean I can't use it for the reverse. :D (By the way, aangilam ஆங்கிலம் /aːŋgil̪əm/ means English).

So I was with my dad earlier today and we were at a Sri Lankan bakery, run by Tamils. We ordered some stuff that came to $4.80 and my dad has a $20 bill on him, meaning the change would've been $16.20. He told the lady behind the counter "அந்த twenty cents-உக்கு one samosa" which meant "for (that) 20 cents, (give me) one samosa". I normally don't do glosses, but I want to breakdown what my dad said because it gave me some insight into Tamil grammar:

-உக்கு /ukːu/ is the dative suffix, denoting to/for. For example, எனக்கு /enəkːu/ means to/for me. In SLT, whenever short /u/ follows a consonant, it gets pronounced as /ɯ/ making the above /enəkːɯ/. (That also means, if I were saying the dative suffix by itself, I would say /ukːɯ/). And I've shared here on my TAC that அந்த /an̪d̪ə/ that is a demonstrative adjective.

அந்த twenty cents-உக்கு one samosa
that twenty cents-DAT one samosa
/an̪d̪ə twɛnti sɛnsɯkːɯ wʌn səmosɐ/

The pronunciation is what I would say; I don't remember my dad's exact pronunciation. Also, I don't think what I did is an actual gloss, but I don't remember how to do a gloss. Perhaps Vijay or Saim could show me?

Edit: So in trying to get the gloss and pronunciations correctly written, I forgot to add the insight! Basically I knew about the dative suffix with respect to pronouns. But I never thought about using it with nouns and demonstrative pronouns. I'm going to try using this structure when I go to a Tamil store to buy food.

Edit 2: After Vijay corrected the dative 1st person pronoun, and the gloss, I changed what I wrote to reflect his corrections.
Last edited by dEhiN on 2017-02-26, 7:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-26, 4:07

Isn't it எனக்கு /enakːu/?

And the gloss would look like this:

that twenty cents-DAT one samosa

As I understand it, you use the dots for when you're using more than one word/abbreviation to explain what a single morpheme means. For example, you might have the word 'he', or its equivalent in another language, glossed as "PRO.3SG" (i.e. 3rd person singular pronoun; I think I've also seen something like "PRO.3.SG" before).

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-26, 7:47

vijayjohn wrote:Isn't it எனக்கு /enakːu/?

You're right. But I never quite got why என்னை + -உக்கு = எனக்கு. That's why I forget it and use double ன.

And the gloss would look like this:

that twenty cents-DAT one samosa

As I understand it, you use the dots for when you're using more than one word/abbreviation to explain what a single morpheme means. For example, you might have the word 'he', or its equivalent in another language, glossed as "PRO.3SG" (i.e. 3rd person singular pronoun; I think I've also seen something like "PRO.3.SG" before).

Thanks. Could I gloss that as PRO.DEM? What about nouns? Or I guess a gloss is a breakdown of morphemes? (Man I really need to review the Morphology section of the linguistics course I took!)
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