TAC 2016 - france-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

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TAC 2016 - france-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-04-10, 21:16

Hi there !

Looks like we're on a fashion here :D so might as well jump in and join the group !

So here's about my obsession on learning languages :

 (en) English
Started something like 23 years ago ( :shock: omg makes me feel so old!). Loved it a lot.
Now I still write and read a lot in English and try to practice it orally each time I can (and not only by watching Sex and the City, Desperate Housewives and Love Actually in English)

My aim is just to carry on.

 (pt) Portuguese
Learned it for 1 year in University in France and Portugal.
I still practice it by reading and writing too (a few Paulo Coelho books are here with me, happy to see me even if it's for the 3rd or 4th time).

My aim is just to carry on.

 (et) Estonian
Now this one... is a heartbreaking. :doggy:
I tried very hard. Really, I'm not kidding, I tried super hard. But I dunno what happened. I loved it very much but it didn't happen.
And I am the most tenacious human being ever. (or so my mother thinks)(and my workmates). So what happened?
But I said just a short "hüvasti" (good bye) to Eesti Keel. We'll see each other very soon, hopefully :D
(and though it is "not recommend", I WILL go to Eesti :twisted: )

 (hu) Hungarian
Now, this one is good and healthy. Learning on 50 languages, with 2 Skype language exchange partners, on various internet websites and above all, making my own themes and deciding "today, I'm learning this" and "today I'm learning that" and immediately practicing them. Levike also kindly plays with me, which is very useful as he is very patient :mrgreen: Hungarians are delightfully patient with learners (well with me actually) and I do not regret having picked up Magyar.

And let's not forget I have this kind of condition :
how-my-brain-works.png


Thus, the switch is still on the upper position for  (en),  (pt),  (et) and  (hu) :D
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'fr' (fr) Native - 'en' (en) Fluentish - 'pt' (pt) Fluentish when I was younger, SQL: A2 or something like that - 'hu' (hu) My current addiction - crazy about it!

uzferry

Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby uzferry » 2016-04-10, 23:34

Welcome to the club and goodluck! :whistle:

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-04-11, 5:16

Thank you very much :D Good luck with French too and let's keep motivated :lol:
(oh and very happy to help you by the way) :mrgreen:
'fr' (fr) Native - 'en' (en) Fluentish - 'pt' (pt) Fluentish when I was younger, SQL: A2 or something like that - 'hu' (hu) My current addiction - crazy about it!

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-04-25, 21:02

Update #1 :D

Still  (hu)magyaring everyday (and I don't mean, to explain, but to study Hungarian) with Memrise, trying to read and to understand. But reading is very, very complicated and writing is much simpler. As I can write with my own words and organize my sentences... But reading, is, like, impossible :cry: I'm trying on Wikipedia page (Ok, Csubacca page, I like how it is translated) and, oh my... :cry:

Also learning with my Skype teacher and doing the "The person after me" games 8-) and opened my thread (though I never thought I would do that) :oops: Levike kindly and patiently plays with me, describing stuff each time I make a mistake (which is 2-3 per sentence :mrgreen: )

Studying on Memrise, just started the 3rd course, but I'm not sure I can remember everything I learn... Though I mainly use it because vocabulary is my huge problem...

Levo told me  (et) Estonian was less tricky than Hungarian! :P maybe I would have been less crappy in declensions and grammar and vocalic harmony with Eesti keel... Who knows...

So not one very necessary update, but I'm still alive here :yep:
'fr' (fr) Native - 'en' (en) Fluentish - 'pt' (pt) Fluentish when I was younger, SQL: A2 or something like that - 'hu' (hu) My current addiction - crazy about it!

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-05-22, 16:26

Update #2

Hi there :D
I wouldn't have thought it would be possible, but I think I'll welcome a new contestant...  (it) Italian!

Actually Italian is not brand new. My mother and my sister both are very good Italian speakers and I think this language must have reached me finally :mrgreen: so my plan is to write, for the moment. I can read (read 1 Harry Potter and 1 Bridget Jones translations in Italian) and speak "just what's necessary for a week-end in Rome" but now writing should be the one I'll focus on. And the Italian subforum is just very great 8-)

Right, to the oldies:

 (et) Estonian
Having lots of afterthoughts. This second finno-ugric language refuses to let my mind in peace, though I told it "olgu nii", leave things are they are and are meant to be... So I thought I would give it another chance after July or August. And I think it sounds adorable. If only they had a direct object... :roll:

 (hu) Hungarian
As Levike said, still following the path like a snail (csigaléptékkel - as fast as a snail, he taught me that). I hope no one is running after me with butter, parsley and garlic. Anyway, now training on reading about Hungarian politics (no, couldn't find anything funnier, sorry). A bit cross with Memrise but we'll be back in talking terms again. I really need to understand how Hungarian sentences are built. This is my huge, huge problem now and while I cannot understand anything I read, writing won't be useful for anything else.
But I still write everyday. I've started a diary in Hungarian (certainly seriously broken Hungarian, but the same) where I write about people and things that piss me off. Given the lack of Hungarian speakers around me, I'm pretty safe here. :lol:

 (pt) Portuguese
Meeting my old friend Paulo again. Yesterday in the lab waiting room, in an attempt to look clever (joke), I had taken my favorite Paulo Coelho book (O Zahir) and started to read it. And my surprise was that I actually COULD read and understand everything I was reading! I know old Paulo's writing is quite basic but the same, it's been a while since I haven't read anything in Portuguese... He just kept using that verb "pisar", I have to look up for the meaning and check if it's a Brasilian word. I'm pretty happy :mrgreen: Maybe after my current books, I give "O Zahir" another go (I've read it 3 times so far - yes, call me insane please, or "maluca" em português).

 (fr) French
And to finish with, French of course. Working with Uzferry made me realize how much we speak our native language without thinking, why is that this way? Why do I use that to say that? Why do I pronounce it like that? Why can't I find a pattern, a definite rule, to describe that? More than once, Uzferry's questions made me wonder and realize how much I would like to be a FLE (Français langue étrangère) teacher and be able to explain every rule of our tricky grammar to foreigners. Unfortunately I'm bound to remain in my dusty office with my dusty colleagues :roll: But I'm delighted I have one pupil (but next my daughter will join the club - I'm already teaching her subjunctive) :lol:

That's all for now :D Thanks to all people who are willing to correct my sentences in all those languages :wink:
'fr' (fr) Native - 'en' (en) Fluentish - 'pt' (pt) Fluentish when I was younger, SQL: A2 or something like that - 'hu' (hu) My current addiction - crazy about it!

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Osias » 2016-05-23, 1:32

Bem vinda de novo, espero que você continue seguindo sua Lenda Pessoal.
2017 est l'année du  (fr) et de l' (de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-05-23, 12:35

Osias wrote:Bem vinda de novo, espero que você continue seguindo sua Lenda Pessoal.


Isso mesmo :D é verdade, até me tinha esquecido dessa "Lenda Pessoal".
Acho que de verdade tenho que ler outra vez "o Zahir".
Qual é os eu livro preferido do Paulo Coelho? :P
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Levike » 2016-05-23, 12:42

france-eesti wrote:Given the lack of Hungarian speakers around me

Találkoztál valaha magyarokkal? Turistákkal vagy talán egyetemistákkal? :hmm:

Did you ever meet Hungarians in real life? Tourists or maybe students or anything? :hmm:
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-05-23, 12:51

Igen, egy egyetemista fiú, a zeneiskolaban :D együtt játszottunk :whistle:
(kedves és jóképű volt) :ohwell:

De most, nem, senkit :(
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Osias » 2016-05-24, 1:57

france-eesti wrote:
Osias wrote:Bem vinda de novo, espero que você continue seguindo sua Lenda Pessoal.


Isso mesmo :D é verdade, até me tinha esquecido dessa "Lenda Pessoal".
Acho que de verdade tenho que ler outra vez "o Zahir".
Qual é os eu livro preferido do Paulo Coelho? :P


Acho que é O Alquimista, mesmo. Não li o Zahir ainda. Não me empolguei com a sinopse. Me pareceu ser imitação do Borges.

Mas aí lembrei que O Alquimista também era.

Um dia talvez eu leia.
2017 est l'année du  (fr) et de l' (de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-05-24, 8:54

No Zahir tem-se de ver mais do que a história mesma. E a obsessão de recuperar o que se perdeu... E deve se ler quando se sente nessa situação para perceber o vázio e o desespero.
Adoro essa frase que aparece na cobertura :

"Tive de a perder para entender que o sabor das coisas recuperadas é o mel mais doce que podemos experimentar."

Mas também sei que cada leitor percebe da sua maneira os livros do Paulo Coelho.
O Alquimista, gostei claro, mas não tanto como esperava. Leu outros livros deles dos que gostou muito?
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-06-11, 18:20

A quick update :D

 (hu) Hungarian
Giving 100% of my energy to Magyar. Crazy about it (obsessed?) and planning Budapest trip... Can't wait! 8-)

 (et) Estonian
Hüvasti nüüd (bye for now). Being rescheduled.


 (lt) Lithuanian
A new idea! Wanna understand the basics of the language. Declensions, grammar... And it sounds WONDERFUL to me. I think I shouldn't pass on this one. This is my summer plan. I don't plan to learn to speak it like a native or anything but I would like to understand its soul.
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Levike » 2016-06-11, 18:57

france-eesti wrote:Declensions, grammar...

So you miss Ukrainian grammar and want to get a flashback? :mrgreen:

And it sounds WONDERFUL to me.

Agree. The way it looks and sounds I'd describe it as Slavic sounding Latin.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-06-11, 21:14

Levike wrote:So you miss Ukrainian grammar and want to get a flashback? :mrgreen:


Ukrainian will be disappointed... I can't remember a thing :( Lithuanian will have to play all alone there :para:
I'm not quite sure this is the same, somehow. I expect Lithuanian declensions to be slightly easier than Hungarian's... But I can no longer compare with Ukrainian unfortunately. And I think Lithuanian is more Baltic than Slavic (but I'm too "new" there to affirm that) :hmm:
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Levike » 2016-06-11, 21:37

france-eesti wrote:I expect Lithuanian declensions to be slightly easier than Hungarian's...

I'd beg to differ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_declension :twisted:

But in any case, it looks fun, I also couldn't stand not to take a look at Lithuanian grammar.

And I'd say that in Hungarian it's not the cases that are hard, but guessing the vowel harmony that comes with them.

And I think Lithuanian is more Baltic than Slavic (but I'm too "new" there to affirm that) :hmm:

Well it is a Baltic language together with Latvian, but by Slavic-like Latin I meant that it has that stereotypical Eastern-European phonology.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-06-11, 21:54

Levike wrote:And I'd say that in Hungarian it's not the cases that are hard, but guessing the vowel harmony that comes with them.


and the suffixes and the prefixes and the order of the words and the accent and the sentence construction and the definite/indefinite conjugation and the BLOODY SEPARATED PREFIX (what does a "s" all alone in the middle of the sentence stand for?) and the omissions and the possessive suffixes... :cry:

It's a dream 8-)

And at least you have a direct object (unlike  (et) :mrgreen: )
Levike wrote:But in any case, it looks fun, I also couldn't stand not to take a look at Lithuanian grammar.


don't hold it back, it may hurt you not to look at Lithuanian grammar :D Have you done it by the way?
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Saim » 2016-06-12, 0:55

france-eesti wrote:and the suffixes and the prefixes


What's so hard about the prefixes and the suffixes?

and the BLOODY SEPARATED PREFIX


Yeah, this is challenging. It's easy enough to remember that it splits of with nem, but I'm still not clear about all the other examples of it going after the verb. It's something about the focus of the sentence... or... something. :lol:

(what does a "s" all alone in the middle of the sentence stand for?)


AFAIK it's just a short form of és.

and the omissions


Of?

the possessive suffixes... :cry:


But the possessive suffixes are almost the same as the definite conjugations? :?:

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-06-12, 9:16

Saim wrote:What's so hard about the prefixes and the suffixes?

Suffixes are pretty okay actually (I just sometimes mix them and the -ba/-be VS -ban/-ben sometimes is complicated for me)(but I know I also encounter this problem in English with in/into)
(the woman who does my proof-reading corrected almost all my in/into in my last novel :cry: )

My problem actually is the prefixes, because I know the verbs with no prefix but when I add a prefix (meg, ki, el, be...) I'm not always sure of the new meaning :doggy:

Yeah, this is challenging. It's easy enough to remember that it splits of with nem, but I'm still not clear about all the other examples of it going after the verb. It's something about the focus of the sentence... or... something. :lol:

:cry:

AFAIK it's just a short form of és.

Oh really??? :shock: that would be great news!!!

and the omissions
Of?

Lenni (sometimes) and subject (sometimes)... But it's getting easier when the language is maturating 8-)
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Saim » 2016-06-12, 12:16

france-eesti wrote:My problem actually is the prefixes, because I know the verbs with no prefix but when I add a prefix (meg, ki, el, be...) I'm not always sure of the new meaning :doggy:


I think you just need to memorise them as if they were separate verbs, the prefix gives you a hint as to what it could mean but it's not always 100% clear.

Luckily in Slavic languages the prefixes are really similar. :D Sometimes I feel like the Hungarians may have calqued it off of us.

Lenni (sometimes) and subject (sometimes)... But it's getting easier when the language is maturating 8-)


You mean when they drop subject pronouns? Portuguese does this as well. IME most languages that have developed conjugational paradigms are pro-drop.

As for lenni, maybe a good way to think of it is that van means there is rather than is.

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Levike » 2016-06-12, 12:30

Saim wrote:Luckily in Slavic languages the prefixes are really similar. :D Sometimes I feel like the Hungarians may have calqued it off of us.

I always got the feeling that we took the "el-" prefix from Germans. :hmm:

eltürni = ertragen (to be able to stand someone)
elvárni = erwarten (to expect)
elmondani = erzählen (to tell)
elismerni = erkennen (to recognise)

Also, about "Hungarians may have calqued it off of us" thing. I always wondered how many Slavic-like features we might have, taking into consideration that the Hungarian language was brought into this region in the 9th century while the Slavs came 2 or 3 centuries earlier. So in today's Hungarian speaking region I wonder how many of our ancestors were actually Slavic-speaking people who learnt Hungarian and therefore brought a bit of Slavic influence into the language.
As for lenni, maybe a good way to think of it is that van means there is rather than is.

Yeah, "lenni" is easy.

van = there is
vannak = there are

So just translate your Hungarian sentence back to English, replace "van/vannak" with "there is/there are" and if it sounds awkward then just leave them out.

@France-eesti

Megyek az iskolába = I am going into school (you are not inside the school yet, but you will be)
Megyek az iskolában = I am going in school (you are already there, you are walking inside of it)

Or think of it like this: ból vs ban vs ba. (ból is exactly the opposite of ba)

Beleteszel valamit a hűtőbe, aztán az a dolog benne van a hűtőben, aztán kiveszed a hűtőből.
You put something into the fridge, then that thing is in the fridge, then you take it out from the fridge.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.


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