TAC 2016 - dEhiN

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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby Antea » 2016-02-28, 23:38

I also have Anki, but for me il also confusing how to use it. I simply download random cards and cumulate them together.

It's wonderful that you can have some practise in Portuguese. Are you doing something in Russian too?

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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-02-29, 18:29

Antea wrote:It's wonderful that you can have some practise in Portuguese. Are you doing something in Russian too?

 (pt) Neste momento, não. Eu quero finalmente começar de aprender o alfabeto cirílico.
 (es) En este momento, no. Pero quiero al final comenzar de aprender el alfabeto cirílico.
 (fr) En ce moment, non. Je veux commencer finalement de apprendre l'alphabet cyrillique.
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby Antea » 2016-02-29, 21:46

dEhiN wrote: Neste momento, não. Eu quero finalmente começar de aprender o alfabeto cirílico.

En este momento, no. Pero finalmente quiero empezar a aprender quiero al final comenzar de aprender el alfabeto cirílico.

En ce moment, non. Je veux commencer finalement de à apprendre l'alphabet cyrillique.

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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-03-02, 3:52

Antea wrote:
dEhiN wrote: Neste momento, não. Eu quero finalmente começar de aprender o alfabeto cirílico.

En este momento, no. Pero finalmente quiero empezar a aprender quiero al final comenzar de aprender el alfabeto cirílico.

En ce moment, non. Je veux commencer finalement de à apprendre l'alphabet cyrillique.

 (pt)Obrigado por as correções. /  (es)Gracias por las correcciones. /  (fr)Merci pour les corrections.

 (en)
I have some follow-up questions:

1) In French, could I put "finalement" after "veux"? Could I also put it before "veux"?

2) In Spanish, why did you put "finalmente" before "quiero" and not after? Could it go after? Could it also go after "empezar"?

3) Also, in Spanish, why did you use "empezar" and not "comenzar"? What's the difference in the two for the idea of "starting something"?

 (pt)Obrigado de novo. /  (es)Gracias de nuevo. /  (fr)Merci une autre fois.
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby Antea » 2016-03-02, 7:24

1) L'adverbe " finalement " peut se mettre au commencement de la phrase, entre l'auxiliaire et le participe ou après le verbe.

2) Lo mismo que antes. Puedes cambiar su posición en la frase. Depende de lo que quieras enfatizar y de lo que quede mejor.

3) Los dos verbos son sinónimos y pueden utilizarse indistintamente. En este caso, me "sonaba" mejor empezar :yep:

Creo que no hay una "sola" frase correcta. Puedes encajar los elementos de forma distinta mientras la frase siga teniendo significado. Luego también depende de la " nuance" que quieras introducir, o de si quieres enfatizar una parte de la frase u otra, o de si se trata de un registro formal o coloquial.

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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby OldBoring » 2016-03-02, 15:10

Não estou seguro, mas corrigiria a frase em português assim:
dEhiN wrote:Neste momento, não. Finalmente eu quero finalmente começar de aprender o alfabeto cirílico.

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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-03-04, 4:32

Gracias a Antea por sus correcciones! Também, obrigado a OldBoring para sua ajuda!

So I should maybe do an update. This will mostly likely solely be in English because I'm too tired to translate.

I changed my signature to include the various languages I now know a few words in. It's true that the definition of a few (or in French quelque mots) ranges from 3-4 words upwards. But, in my books, it still counts if I'm actively trying to remember those words and eventually plan to learn more words.

I'm also seeking out opportunities to use the little I'm learning through my Anki deck and Duolingo, as well as learn more when I can. I'm using the associated social media platforms (Skype, Whatsapp, DIscord) to chat with people. And it's nice, getting back into juggling conversations in 3-6 different languages at the same time.

I did this (trying to juggle conversations in several languages simultaneously) once before, back in 2014 when I tried to do 20 languages. But back then, I made the mistake of trying to keep up with any conversation made in any of the 20 languages, and so try to assimilate a ton of new words in each language.

This time when the conversation gets too much for me, I bow out of it. Which makes it more manageable - I can slowly progress in each language.
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-03-08, 5:09

Hi all, so I need some help with correcting an email I tried to write in French. It's a bit of a long story, but basically I learned that Finland has a Maternity Package, and I thought it was a great idea, so I crafted a bilingual email to the Prime Minister of Canada, the Right Honourable Mr. Justin Trudeau! I was going to have a friend proof the French part for me, but then another friend told me that Canada apparently has a similar thing already.

Anyway, I still would like corrections on what I wrote in French, please. How is my formal French writing? What do you think could be improved, both in terms of basic grammar mistakes and higher register phrasing?

Here are both parts to the email:

Code: Select all

Subject:
Bonjour le très honorable Mr. Justin Trudeau

Body:
Bonjour Mr. Trudeau,

Je m'appelle David Watson et je suis un citoyen de Canada. J'habite à Toronto, Ontario. Ma langue maternelle est l'anglais mais j'étudie le français, donc j'essaie d'écrire cet email en les deux langues, le français et l'anglais.

Récemment, j'ai appris au sujet d'une chose le gouvernement de la Finlande fait pour ses citoyens. Spécifiquement, les femmes qui sont enceintes. Il (le gouvernement) les donne gratuitement un lot de maternité. Vous pouvez lire plus sur Wikipédia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_package. Vous pouvez aussi voir les contenus qui sont inclus dans le lot cette année (il est en finlandais): http://www.kela.fi/web/sv/moderskapsforpackningen. Je pense personnellement que c'est une très bonne idée, et peut-être le gouvernement du Canada va faire le même dans le futur?

Merci beaucoup Mr. Trudeau pour lire mon émail. Vous vous passez une bonne journée.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Mr. Trudeau,

My name is David Watson and I am a Canadian citizen. I live in Toronto, Ontario. My mother tongue is English, but I am studying French, and so I have decided to try and write this email in both languages.

Recently, I learned about something that the Finnish government does for its citizens; specifically for its pregnant women. They give the women something called a Maternity Package, for free. You can read more about it on the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_package. You can also see the contents of this year's package (but it's in Finnish): http://www.kela.fi/web/sv/moderskapsforpackningen. Personally, I think that this is a wonderful idea, and I would love to see Canada be able to provide something like this in the future.

Thank you very much Mr. Trudeau for reading my email. You have yourself a wonderful day.


Merci beaucoup en avance!
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby Dormouse559 » 2016-03-10, 7:24

I can't claim to know much about French formal email etiquette, let alone Québécois etiquette, if it differs from in France, so I've concentrated more on grammatical mistakes.

dEhiN wrote:Subject:
Bonjour le très honorable Mr. Justin Trudeau

Body:
Bonjour Mr. Trudeau,

Je m'appelle David Watson et je suis un citoyen du Canada. J'habite à Toronto en Ontario. Ma langue maternelle est l'anglais mais j'étudie le français, donc j'essaie d'écrire cet email (ou "ce courriel") en dans les deux langues, le français et l'anglais.

Récemment, j'ai appris au sujet entendu parler d'une chose que le gouvernement de la Finlande fait pour ses citoyens. Spécifiquement, pour les femmes qui sont enceintes. Il (le gouvernement) les donne gratuitement un lot de maternité. Vous pouvez en lire plus sur Wikipédia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_package. Vous pouvez aussi voir les contenus qui sont inclus dans le lot cette année (il la page/l'article est en finlandais): http://www.kela.fi/web/sv/moderskapsforpackningen. Je pense personnellement que c'est une très bonne idée, et peut-être le gouvernement du Canada va-t-il faire la même chose dans l'avenir.

Merci beaucoup Mr. Trudeau pour de lire mon email (ou "courriel"). Vous vous passez une Bonne journée.


courriel: I believe "courriel" is more common in Quebec. At the very least, it has more official acceptance than "email", so it seems like a better choice.

le gouvernement: I think you could delete that. There aren't any other masculine singular nouns in the vicinity, so "il" could only refer to "le gouvernement".

lot de maternité: I'm getting a lot of hits for "trousseau de maternité", but I don't have the resources to know if that's the most common translation of "äitiyspakkaus".

finlandais: As far as I can tell, "finlandais" is perfectly alright for saying "Finnish (language)". But Wiktionnaire says that purists favor "finnois", because Finland has multiple official languages (reminds me of "Spanish" vs. "Castilian"). That might make "finnois" a better choice in a formal email.


Now for the formal-etiquette notes (Take these with a large grain of salt):
Opening salutation: As I learned it, you shouldn't name the recipient in the salutation, so instead of "Bonjour M. Trudeau", you should simply write "Monsieur".

Closing salutation: The usual suggestions for ending formal emails can sound cumbersome for us English speakers. A pretty basic one I know is "Veuillez agréer, Monsieur, mes salutations distinguées." I don't know whether your "bonne journée" can stay.


I'd love to have a native speaker comment on your email. It'd be enlightening for both of us.
Last edited by Dormouse559 on 2016-03-10, 7:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-03-10, 7:39

I remember that at one time, I was working on a research project involving Malagasy and had to e-mail some Malagasy schoolteachers in Quebec who spoke French but apparently not English. I tried drafting an e-mail in French then passing it by a native speaker. In my e-mail, I used one of the usual "avec mes remerciements distingués" etc. etc. closing salutations and was stunned to see that among other things, the native speaker chose to cut out all of that and instead replace it with just "Cordialement," I asked her about it later, and IIRC she said that people don't use that in formal (e-mail?) correspondence, at least not anymore.

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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby OldBoring » 2016-03-10, 12:50

Yeah I think in Italian too, emails tend to be less formal than printed mail.

And David, your link: http://www.kela.fi/web/sv/moderskapsforpackningen is actually in Swedish. :P

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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-03-11, 4:16

Dormouse559 wrote:I can't claim to know much about French formal email etiquette, let alone Québécois etiquette, if it differs from in France, so I've concentrated more on grammatical mistakes.

Wow Matthew! Merci beaucoup pour tes corrections! Some of those grammar mistakes are simple and I should've known them. (Well, like I do know them; just not sure what happened when I was writing). I'm still getting used to "en" in the sense of "about it". I only think of it in the sense of "in". But I would have never guessed it's better to say "j'ai entendu parler d'une chose" as opposed to a direct translation from English, "j'ai appris au sujet d'une chose"!

OldBoring wrote:And David, your link: http://www.kela.fi/web/sv/moderskapsforpackningen is actually in Swedish. :P

So it is! Grazie! And I just saw that they have the page in English too. Haha.

So I also asked a polyglot friend of mine from Paris, France (so her native languages are French and Wolof) for corrections, and this is what she wrote. Interestingly, she keeps the salutation and closing (for the most part):
Bonjour Mr. Trudeau,

Je m'appelle David Watson et je suis un citoyen du Canada. J'habite à Toronto en Ontario. Ma langue maternelle est l'anglais mais j'ai étudié le français, donc j'essaie d'écrire cet email dans les deux langues, le français et l'anglais.

Récemment, j'ai appris au sujet d'une chose concernant le gouvernement de la Finlande fait pour ses citoyens. Les femmes qui sont enceintes, le gouvernement leur donne gratuitement un lot de maternité. Vous pouvez lire plus sur Wikipédia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_package.
Vous pouvez aussi avoir plus d'informations en consultant ce lien (article en anglais): http://www.kela.fi/web/sv/moderskapsforpackningen.
Je pense personnellement que c'est une très bonne idée, et peut-être le gouvernement du Canada pourrait faire la même dans le futur?

Merci beaucoup Mr. Trudeau pour lire mon émail. Je vous souhaite une bonne journée.

I'm also not sure why she wrote "article en anglais".
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-04-07, 21:15

Hey, it's been almost a month since I wrote anything! :D

I've basically been doing Anki and Duo every day for this past almost month. I think my Duo streak is at 68, and I started Anki before Duo. I'm now down to 412 new Anki words. I settled on doing 5 new words a day and up to 50 reviews across all my languages. (I also put each language into a sub deck of its own). Interestingly, I'm finding that I tend to recall about 80-85% of the review without any difficulty, about 10-15% with some difficulty, and the last 5-10% I forget. I also started writing the answers in French for a few cards in Indonesian and I think Hindi.

Overall things have been going ok. The consistency is helping me. But I'm not really doing much beyond that. At least not much intentional study. I'm still chatting on various social media in mostly French or Portuguese, hosting that Portuguese Meetup, going to the odd Brazilian party, setting things like Google to Portuguese (so all my Google stuff shows up in Port) and my phone in French.

I have been busy with other things though. For most of last month I started doing a little dog walking, which meant every day my afternoon would be broken up. And I also enrolled to go back to school! I'm planning to do a 4-year Bachelor of Interdisciplinary Studies at a college near me (community college in American parlance :)).

But lately I've been feeling an itch to step up my studying habits. At first I was satisfied with saying I'll do one lesson on Duo and my Anki cards each day, and that was good enough. But it's been about a month now. I think I'd like to try working through one of the many language books I have, to at least say I finished a book.
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-04-20, 14:05

I decided to do some of those free online CEFR tests for FSP (French/Spanish/Portuguese). They tend to be almost exclusively focused on reading comprehension. Also, for F/S, I used www.languagelevel.com, and they seemed to incorporate grammar and syntax comprehension. Or, at least, the options for answers included other parts of speech besides verb conjugations. The one I used for P, www.brooklynschooloflanguages.com, had a lot more questions, but all the choices were verb conjugations. I guess overall syntax knowledge was still tested.

Anyway, with the disclaimer aside, I have good news. My French level is B2, which I had previously thought, but the last time I did one of these tests I got conflicting results (B2, then B1) so I knew I was maybe on the boundary of the two. This time, I'm definitely in the upper intermediate range. And, biggest news of all, my levels in Spanish and Portuguese are both B1! So yay!

I have a feeling my spoken levels would be less, especially in Spanish. Because I could read, I could guess answers based on comprehension of other parts of the sentence and some knowledge of verb tenses (meaning, even if I don't know a conjugated form to reproduce it, I can recognize it based on other clues for understanding).
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-09-30, 4:50

After a break from UL for several months, I think I'd like to start engaging in the community again. So what better place to start than my TAC, which is basically like my language journal.

In the summer I started learning Korean. About the end of April I got involved with an ESL group at my church, and most of the students happen to be Koreans. So this one Korean woman and I started meeting regularly and she would teach me Korean while I'd help her with English. Eventually she had to go back to Korea, at the end of August. :(

But in September I started taking Korean Language Skills 1 at my college (community college for all you US folks). We've spent the last 3 weeks learning a lot of the alphabet. I actually think my particular section might be behind from all the other sections. *sigh* Oh well! However, every week there's a practice sheet, and we have been learning vocabulary on the sheet. And in the next class we will have a quiz, so I need to start studying the vocabulary. I keep meaning to add them to Anki, but so far haven't; I think I'm going to have to definitely figure out a way to do extra study on Anki, since 4 days isn't a lot of time to learn 87+ words (depending on if the various words we were taught in class on the blackboard will count as well; it's hard to figure out which words were just used as examples versus which ones are vocabulary we have to know). Because I've already seen these words used once, twice, or several times in the 3 lectures, hopefully I won't have a hard time remembering them.

I also started an online language course this past week: Introduction to Frisian. It's 3 weeks long and I'm doing it on FutureLearn.com. Because it's only 3 weeks, it's a bit intensive; there's something like 14 phrases and 121 vocabulary to learn for this week alone. But it is fun to do Frisian; I can see the similarities to English, as well as to the bits I know in Swedish, German, and the few words I know in Dutch. The hard part for me is knowing whether to learn all the vocab fully first, and then do the rest of the course, or not. Week 1 has about 34 activities in it, and they introduce the Quizlet sets for the vocab at activity 9/10. The other hard part for me is going at my pace and not comparing with the others on there.

In regard to Anki, these past several months I've basically only been doing French, Brazilian Portuguese, Spanish, Tamil, Swedish, Japanese, and Korean. I haven't been doing any other language, although I recently attended Hungarian and Romanian Meetups, which has made me relearn the Hungarian cards I have on Anki, and add some basic Romanian words. So I guess currently, I'm juggling 10 languages.
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby Meera » 2016-10-06, 16:34

dEhiN wrote:After a break from UL for several months, I think I'd like to start engaging in the community again. So what better place to start than my TAC, which is basically like my language journal.

In the summer I started learning Korean. About the end of April I got involved with an ESL group at my church, and most of the students happen to be Koreans. So this one Korean woman and I started meeting regularly and she would teach me Korean while I'd help her with English. Eventually she had to go back to Korea, at the end of August. :(

But in September I started taking Korean Language Skills 1 at my college (community college for all you US folks). We've spent the last 3 weeks learning a lot of the alphabet. I actually think my particular section might be behind from all the other sections. *sigh* Oh well! However, every week there's a practice sheet, and we have been learning vocabulary on the sheet. And in the next class we will have a quiz, so I need to start studying the vocabulary. I keep meaning to add them to Anki, but so far haven't; I think I'm going to have to definitely figure out a way to do extra study on Anki, since 4 days isn't a lot of time to learn 87+ words (depending on if the various words we were taught in class on the blackboard will count as well; it's hard to figure out which words were just used as examples versus which ones are vocabulary we have to know). Because I've already seen these words used once, twice, or several times in the 3 lectures, hopefully I won't have a hard time remembering them.






Three weeks for the Korean alphabet? I'm jealous because in my uni I only had two weeks to learn both Hiragana and Katakana :(


And that future learn ducth class looks cool, I might sign up for it :P
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-11-16, 18:02

I've been wanting to do an update for a while now.

 (ta-LK)
I learned about a Learn Tamil group on Facebook. I also found this blog from someone learning Tamil. I don't have time to dedicate to it now, but with these 2 new resources I feel more energized to get back into it.

 (hu)
I decided to drop Hungarian, again! One of these days magyar, one of these days...

 (ko)
I'm basically focusing on Korean for my class, and whatever languages I'm doing with Anki. Actually, my Korean is coming along. As is my style, I've been cram-studying the week or so before a quiz/test, but thanks to some really good cram-studying and Anki, I'm right now getting a 96.9% in the course!

 (fy)
So I didn't end up completing the course. I finished Weeks 1 & 2, but just couldn't catch up. Fortunately, it turned out that I still have access to the course content once I'm registered for a course, even when the course finishes. Basically the course start and end dates (especially the end date) has more to do with access to the course educators, who will be reading the comments and answering questions. Of course to my mind this meant one thing: I don't have to push myself to finish any language course on Futurelearn! I can just start a bunch of them and "eventually" finish them at my own pace. :D

 (it)
So that is exactly what I did: I started a 6-week Introduction to Italian course on Futurelearn ... which I haven't done anything in.

 (nl)
I did the same thing with a 3-week Introduction to Dutch course on Futurelearn. Actually, both this and the Italian course I signed up before I knew about the "having access to course content even when the course is over" bit. But knowing this has meant I was able to only focus on Korean and not do any of these online courses for now.

 (fr) (es-CO) (pt-BR) (ta-LK) (sv) (ja) (ko) (fy) (it) (ro)
And of course I can't forget about Anki. Recently I decided to put all the cards into one deck called Languages. (Before I had one deck per language). This would mean that I might get a card for a French word, followed by one for a Swedish word. I was curious to see how well I would remember when mixed up like that. I actually did pretty well. However, I was still using separate decks for the courses I was doing. Two days ago I got rid of those decks too and added everything into the Languages deck. So currently I have vocab from the 10 flags. For the most part, I seem to be able to remember everything, except for the Korean words. I'm having to suspend cards because it's just really difficult for me. As a quick example, I wasn't able to review Anki for 4 days due to being sick. Yesterday, when I did Anki again, I had 200 cards. Out of those 200, 35 I didn't remember at all, and most of those were Korean words.
Follow my TAC 2017 here.

(N)  (en-CA) | (B2)  (fr) | (B1)  (pt-BR) | (A2)  (es-CO) | (A1)  (ja) (ko) (sv) (ta-LK)
(A0)  (de) (fy) (haw) (hi) (hu) (id) (it) (oc) (oj) (pl) (ro) (sq) (tl) (tr) (zh)

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Car
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby Car » 2016-11-16, 22:12

The Dutch course is good, but some of the stuff will sound awfully familiar to you from the Frisian course. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about the Italian courses.
Please correct my mistakes!

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dEhiN
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2016-11-16, 23:17

Car wrote:The Dutch course is good, but some of the stuff will sound awfully familiar to you from the Frisian course. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about the Italian courses.

Dankewol! This seems to be used in Frisian as well as German; I wonder if it's a loanword or cognate?

As for Italian, French, Spanish and Portuguese take care of that! It's like as soon as I see a basic word, there's a 50% chance I can guess the meaning. That doesn't work when writing obviously, nor when speaking or listening.
Follow my TAC 2017 here.

(N)  (en-CA) | (B2)  (fr) | (B1)  (pt-BR) | (A2)  (es-CO) | (A1)  (ja) (ko) (sv) (ta-LK)
(A0)  (de) (fy) (haw) (hi) (hu) (id) (it) (oc) (oj) (pl) (ro) (sq) (tl) (tr) (zh)

vijayjohn
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Re: TAC 2016 - dEhiN

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-11-17, 0:41

dEhiN wrote:
Car wrote:The Dutch course is good, but some of the stuff will sound awfully familiar to you from the Frisian course. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about the Italian courses.

Dankewol! This seems to be used in Frisian as well as German; I wonder if it's a loanword or cognate?

Dankewol? Dankewol isn't a German word.


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