TAC 2016 - Mike - Turkish, Portuguese

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Michael
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-01-19, 3:59

voron wrote:
Your wells do not come in number :?:

Buruq means a twist, that is a twisted street, and I guess "saya" is the dative of "say":

Your twisted streets do not come to a number (=they are endless).

Sənin düzəlişlərini çox təşəkkür!

In the vocabulary list, however, the author defines buruq as an oil well, or what would be آتشگاه âtashgâh "place of fire" in Persian, so maybe, "Endless are your oil wells" (which would make just as much sense, as that's what Azerbaijan is known for)?

OldBoring wrote:Gün becomes günü?

-(s)I (-ı, -i, -u or as dictated by vowel harmony) is the third-person singular (and sometimes plural) possessive suffix and is required in this case since gün is being modified adjectivally by another noun, as Vijay pointed out, creating a compound noun, i.e. "Market Day-its".
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby OldBoring » 2016-01-19, 10:02

Thank you both.
vijayjohn wrote:I'd compare it to "Christmas" vs. "Christmas Day." Same thing. Turkish similarly has pazar (which also means 'market/Sunday').

Bur if Sunday and market are the same word, are you supposed to say officially “the bazar opens on bazar at 8 am”?

But I get the impression that the official term for the day in Azerbaijani is bazar, but the colloquial term is bazar günü.

They thought: “Hey! The Chinese use numbers but don't call Sunday ‘the seventh day’! We should also say something different!”.

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-01-19, 10:12

OldBoring wrote:Bur if Sunday and market are the same word, are you supposed to say officially “the bazar opens on bazar at 8 am”?

Yes. Bazar bazar günü səhər saat 8-də (səkkizdə) açılır.

What's interesting is that in this sentence, gün is not taking the possessive suffix I described in my last post, but the accusative suffix (+(n)I), to describe "on ___day".
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby OldBoring » 2016-01-20, 4:13

Michael wrote:Yes. Bazar bazar günü səhər saat 8-də (səkkizdə) açılır.

But here you used bazar günü and not bazar alone. So my supposition was, they add günü to distinguish market from Sunday. Is it possible?

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-01-20, 4:19

OldBoring wrote:
Michael wrote:Yes. Bazar bazar günü səhər saat 8-də (səkkizdə) açılır.

But here you used bazar günü and not bazar alone. So my supposition was, they add günü to distinguish market from Sunday. Is it possible?

I think Mike is saying that they would do that with any day in that context. So for example, if they were saying 'on Wednesday' instead of 'on Sunday', then also they'd say çərşənbə günü, i.e. 'on (the day of) Wednesday'. Maybe days of the week don't inflect for case all on their own, in which case it would make sense for them always to be followed by some case-inflected form of gün when you're talking about something happening on a particular day of the week.

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby OldBoring » 2016-01-20, 4:28

OK, thanks for the clarification. :)

This is kind of the opposite of Portuguese, where you're supposed to says segunda-feira, terça-feira, etc. but in daily life people simply say segunda, terça, etc.

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-01-20, 4:30

Yeah, 'cause Portuguese doesn't have cases. :lol:

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby voron » 2016-01-20, 9:13

Michael wrote:
OldBoring wrote:Bur if Sunday and market are the same word, are you supposed to say officially “the bazar opens on bazar at 8 am”?

Yes. Bazar bazar günü səhər saat 8-də (səkkizdə) açılır.

What's interesting is that in this sentence, gün is not taking the possessive suffix I described in my last post, but the accusative suffix (+(n)I), to describe "on ___day".

:hmm: I'm not sure about this.

In Turkish, you use 3 different noun cases for expressions of time:
1) nominative
Sabah okula gittim - I went to school in the morning
2) locative
Bayramda Paris'e gideceğim - I will go to Paris on holiday
3) obsolete accusative (which looks like modern genitive. It is not productive, used only for a few words)
Kışın kayak yaptım - I skied in winter

There is no rule which one of 1-3 to use and you basically have to remember for each word. For example it's baharda (in spring) but kışın (in winter).

Pazar günü looks like case 1. to me, that is you use possessive to connect pazar and gün, and then you use the whole construction in the nominative.

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-01-20, 18:47

In which case bazar günü would be the colloquial form mentioned on that blog!

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-01-21, 21:37

I tried reading a few articles on BBC Azeri, but the syntax is still too overwhelming for me, not to mention that I've only been taught two tenses so far. I'll bookmark the articles, since they seemed interesting judging by their titles, and see how much better I can make heads or tails of them after the Third Review (I just finished the Second).
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
Personal language journals: TAC ‘17 (general log) | Türkî/Türkçe
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-01-22, 14:28

Dördüncü (4) Həftənin Yerilikyi (Week 4 Update)

(I learned the rule about leniting word-final -k to -y- and -q to -ğ- before suffixes that begin in a vowel quite early on, yet this error has been slipping right past me for over a month. Live and learn, I guess.) :whistle:

 (az) Progress
Öztopçu: Just started 7/12, on page 157/311. I finally completed the exercises at the end of Unit 6, along with the Second Review that came immediately after that. I learnt about secondary postpositions, which are used to describe location and are composed as such: location word + possessive suffix + locative (/dative/ablative) suffix. Also learned vocabulary concerning the weather.
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-01-29, 22:45

Beşinci (5ci) Həftənin Yeriliyi (Week 5 Update)

 (az) Progress
Öztopçu: Unfortunately, due to a depressive episode, no progress.
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-02-07, 20:45

As you may have noticed, I haven't followed up with the Altıncı (6) Həftənin Yeriliyi (Week 6 Update) because I haven't touched my Azeri workbook in over two weeks. But as I'm writing this, I'm going over the 200-odd due items in my Anki deck and will resume study of Unit 7, so that hopefully by this Friday there can be some meat to my update.

I really wanted to post a translation of an article before then as a token of my commitment, but my level is still far too weak to be able to parse the complex syntax and fancy vocabulary of the literary language.
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
Personal language journals: TAC ‘17 (general log) | Türkî/Türkçe
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Michael
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-02-09, 20:28

When you get used to writing Azeri on the iPhone within the constraints of the Turkish layout:

Image
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
Personal language journals: TAC ‘17 (general log) | Türkî/Türkçe
I appreciate all corrections. In fact, I encourage them!
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Michael
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-02-11, 15:40

I'm slightly modifying the formatting of my excerpts. I'm keeping the same font but not enlarging the size from the baseline 100 of the forum. Also, I'll start providing a recording (click on Vocaroo səsyazması) along with each translation, now that I have a little more comfort in my pronunciation, but it still needs improving, especially my prosody, so once again, all constructive criticism is welcome! Here's an excerpt from within Unit 7:

Bakı radiosundan hava məlumatı
A weather report from Baku Radio

Sinoptiklərin verdiyi məlumata görə bu gün respublikamızın rayonlarında yağış yağacağı və şimşək çaxacağı gözlənilir. Saniyədə 5-10 metr sürətlə qərb küləyi əsəcək, dağlarda 20-25, aran yerlərində 28-33, bəzi yerlərdə 35 dərəcəyədək isti olacaq. Bakıda və Abşeron yarımadasında saniyədə 9-14 metr sürətli şimal, günortadan sonra saniyədə 15-20, axşam üstü arabir 23-28 metrədək sürətlə qərb və şimal-qərb küləkləri əsəcək. Yarimadada 27-32, Bakıda 28-30 dərəcə isti olacağı gözlənilir.

(Vocaroo səsyazması)
"According to the forecast given by the weather report, in the districts of our republic some rain ('the will-raining of rain') and thunderstorms ('the will-striking of lightning') are expected today. A westerly wind will blow with a speed of 5-10 meters per second, [and] there will be a temperature of up to 20-25°C (68-77°F) in the mountains, 28-33°C (82-91°F) in the lowlands, and 35°C (95°F) in some places. In Baku and the Absheron Peninsula a northerly wind will blow with a speed of 23-28 meters per second, 15-20 per second in the afternoon, and a westerly and northwesterly wind with a speed of up to 23-28 meters per second occasionally in the evening. A temperature of 27-32°C (81-90°F) is expected on the Peninsula and 28-30°C (82-86°F) in Baku."
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-02-19, 2:26

Since no one responded to my last post, and I'm in sort of a rush right now, I'll skip the recordings, but if no one will have responded by the time I get back home, I'll add those as well.

Yeddinci Vahidin Çıxarışları (Excerpts from Unit 7)

Dostumun təzə menzili var. Mən dostumun mənzilini görməyə gedirəm. O mənə təzə mənzilini göstərir.

Solmaz: Nazim, yeni mənzilim çox yaxşıdır, otaqlarım genişdir. Bu, vanna otağıdır. O. mətbəxdir. Orada isti və soyuq su var. Bu. mənim otağımdır. Burada stol və şkaf var. Bura isə mənim iş otağımdır. Ora qonaq otağıdır.
Nazim: Qonaq otağın çox qəşəngdir, pəncərələri böyükdür.
Solmaz: Yataq otağımız işıqlıdır. Mən mənzilimin rahatlığından çox razıyam.
Nazim: Mebeliniz təzədirmi?
Solmaz: Bəli, lap təzədir.
Nazim: Uşaq otağın varmı?
Solmaz: Bəli, Nazim, uşaq otağım var. Orada uşaqlarım oynayır.
Nazim: Solmaz. səni təbrik edirəm. Yeni mənzilin həqiqətən çox yaxşıdır.

"My friend has a new apartment. I'm going right now to see her apartment. She's showing me her new apartment.

Solmaz: Nazim, my new apartment is very nice, my rooms are very spacious. This is the bathroom. That is the kitchen. It has hot and cold water. This is my room. There's a table and cupboard in here, while over here is my study room. Over there is the guest room.
Nazim: Your guest room is very beautiful, its windows are big.
Solmaz: Our bedroom is bright. I'm very satisfied with the comfort of my apartment.
Nazim: Is you guys' furniture new?
Solmaz: Yes, they're very new.
Nazim: Do you have a children's room?
Solmaz: Yes, Nazim, I have a children's room. My kids play in there.
Nazim: Nazim, I congratulate you. Your new apartment is truly very nice."

Nizami Gəncəvi
Azərbaycanın böyük şairi, alimi və mütəfəkkiri Nizami Gəncəvi görkəmli bir sənətkardır. Onun adı İlyas, atasınan adı Yusifdir. Nizami 1141-ci ildə Azərbaycanın qədim elm və mədəniyyət mərkəzi olan Gəncə şəhərində anadan olmuşdur. Bütün həyatını Gəncədə keçirmişdir. Hazırda elə bir mədəni xalq yoxdur ki, Nizamini tanımasın. Nizaminin çoxlu lirik şerləri, qəzəlləri va beş böyük poeması var: Sirlər xəzinəsi, Xosrov və Şirin, Leyli və Məcnun, Yeddi Gözəl, İskəndərnamə. Bu poemalar birlikdə Xəmsə (beşlik) adlanır. Onun əsərləri dünyanın bir sıra dillərinə tərcümə olunmuşdur. Nizami humanist bir şairdir. O əsərlərində yaxşılığı, dostluğu, ədaləti, biliyi, elmi təbliğ edir. Böyük şairimiz 1209-cu ildə Gəncədə vəfat etmişdir.

"Nizami Ganjavi
Great poet, scientist and philosopher of Azerbaijan, Nizami Ganjavi was an exceptional composer. His name is Ilyas, his father's name is Joseph. Nizami was born in 1141 in the city of Ganja that was the old scientific and cultural center of Azerbaijan. He spent his whole life in Ganja. Even so, there was no person of culture who did now know Nizami. Nizami has a lot of lyrical poems, ghazals and five great poems: Treasury of Poems, Khosrow and Shirin, Leyli and Majnoon, The Seven Beautiful, and Biography of Alexander. These poems combined are named Khamsa (The 5). His works were translated into all sorts of the world's languages. Nizami was a humanistic poet. He championed kindness, friendship, justice, wisdom and science in his works. Our great poet passed away in Ganja in 1209."

A: Haralısınız?
B: Bakıdanam.
A: İndi harada yaşayırsınız?
B: Hal-hazırda Bakıda oluram.
A: Yanınızdakı kimdir?
B: O mənim dostumdur.
A: Bəs o haralıdır?
B: Londondandır.
A: Milliyyəti nədir?
B: İngilisdir. Siz ingiliscə bilirsiniz?
A: Yox, bilmirəm. Mənim ana dilim alman dilidir. Sizin ana diliniz nədir?
B: Mənim ana dilim Azərbaycan dilidir.

"A: Where are you from?
B: I'm from Baku.
A: Where do you live now?
B: I currently stay in Baku.
A: Who's the one with you?
B: He's my friend.
A: And where is he from?
B: He's from London.
A: What's his nationality?
B: He's English. Do you know English?
A: No, I don't. German is my native language. What's your native language?
B: Azerbaijani is my native language."

Mən bu gün bazarlıq etdim. Bu şalvarı Füzuli küçəsindəki paltar mağazasından aldım. O mağaza beş mərtəbəli binanın yanında yerləşir. O mağaza axşam yeddiyə qədər açıqdır. Mağazanın qabağında metro stansiyası var. O metro ilə Bakı Dövlət Universitetinə getmək olar. Mən dünən universitetə getdim və dostlarımı gördüm.

"I went shopping today. I got these pants from the dress stop on Fuzuli Street. That store is located near the five-story building. That store is open until seven in the evening. The metro station is right in front of the store. With that metro you can go to the Baku National University. Yesterday I went to the university and saw my friends."
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
Personal language journals: TAC ‘17 (general log) | Türkî/Türkçe
I appreciate all corrections. In fact, I encourage them!
AVATAR: Satellite view of the southern Balkan Peninsula and Western Anatolia

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-02-19, 4:33

I'm not sure any of us knows Azeri well enough to critique your pronunciation in it, tbh. :)

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby Michael » 2016-02-19, 7:53

vijayjohn wrote:I'm not sure any of us knows Azeri well enough to critique your pronunciation in it, tbh. :)

As I previously stated, I invite all Turkish learners/speakers to critique it as well, since the phonologies of the two languages are so similar.
N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
Personal language journals: TAC ‘17 (general log) | Türkî/Türkçe
I appreciate all corrections. In fact, I encourage them!
AVATAR: Satellite view of the southern Balkan Peninsula and Western Anatolia

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby voron » 2016-02-19, 8:25

Michael wrote:As I previously stated, I invite all Turkish learners/speakers to critique it as well, since the phonologies of the two languages are so similar.

It sounded Turkic too me, especially your ğ and x sounds. :) There are quite a lot of differences between standard Azerbaijani and Turkish though for me to make any constructive comments.

Do we have your Persian recordings anywhere on Unilang? I'd love to hear them.

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Re: TAC 2016 - Mike (Azeri, Spanish)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-02-19, 18:29

Michael wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I'm not sure any of us knows Azeri well enough to critique your pronunciation in it, tbh. :)

As I previously stated, I invite all Turkish learners/speakers to critique it as well, since the phonologies of the two languages are so similar.

Sorry, I must have missed that, but are they? Even within Turkish, there's a good deal of regional variation as far as phonology goes. I may know some Turkish and have listened to it before, but that doesn't mean I have any idea what dialect variation within Turkish looks like, let alone the variation between Turkic languages (including Azeri, of course).


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