Saim's blog 2014-2016

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby Saim » 2016-11-16, 11:39

Image

Yay! Struggled a bit at the end but I got through it eventually. Took me about three weeks, which is quite quick I guess. Now hopefully I'll manage to focus more on Arabic since I have more time, although I'll make sure to maintain the tree so I consolidate the knowledge (and then in maybe a month or so I'll move onto some other resource).

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby dEhiN » 2016-11-16, 12:06

Saim wrote:Took me about three weeks, which is quite quick I guess.

Firstly, congrats! Secondly, roughly how much time did you spend per day? I've tried to keep at Duo to finish a tree, but never managed the patience or perseverance. Though perhaps it's also because I was doing several trees at once!
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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby voron » 2016-11-16, 15:53

That's cool dude! Tebrikler! I can't wait until you start sharing and translating more songs in Arabic (and Turkish, too). Will you be doing Eastern Arabic only or MSA too?

Also you've exposed some details of your browsing history. I can see that you have Memrise open with something that looks like a Polish deck; Hrvatski jezični portal which I used to use a lot too; and that you browser's language is set to Serbian. :)

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby Saim » 2016-11-16, 17:25

dEhiN wrote:
Saim wrote:Took me about three weeks, which is quite quick I guess.

Firstly, congrats! Secondly, roughly how much time did you spend per day? I've tried to keep at Duo to finish a tree, but never managed the patience or perseverance. Though perhaps it's also because I was doing several trees at once!


Thanks! Most days around an hour, except on Saturday and Sunday when it tended more towards two or three.

Oh yeah, I definitely don't think I could've kept up that pace if I was doing more than one course. The only thing that gave me motivation was to think how I would finish the tree and be over with it. :lol: I remember I was trying to get through Routledge Colloquial Malay and Integrated Arabic: Syrian Colloquial Arabic, but I ended up prioritising Turkish and the others kind of had to wait. In the next couple of weeks I'll refocus and try to burn through Syrian Colloquial Arabic (I've done 4 chapters out of 8), although some of the other Duolingo courses are looking pretty tempting. I might even use it to revise Hebrew and Hungarian, I'm sure I'll find some new vocabulary.

Anyway I would definitely recommend sticking to one tree, because the further down in the tree you go the harder it gets to maintain the earlier lessons (when the "skills" learn "strength") and keep going at the same time.

voron wrote:That's cool dude! Tebrikler! I can't wait until you start sharing and translating more songs in Arabic (and Turkish, too). Will you be doing Eastern Arabic only or MSA too?


Teşekkür! I'll mostly focus on Eastern Arabic, because I'd really like to be able to understand music better and converse in the language for once. I might start reading Arabic news after a couple of months as well though, over the past couple of years I tortured myself quite a lot with formal Arabic vocabulary and journalistic texts, which has given me a fair amount of passive vocabulary (which is reinforced by Punjabi, Urdu and Hebrew), so it won't be too difficult to get back into it.

Also you've exposed some details of your browsing history. I can see that you have Memrise open with something that looks like a Polish deck; Hrvatski jezični portal which I used to use a lot too; and that you browser's language is set to Serbian. :)


You caught me. :para:

The Memrise deck was actually the vocbulary from Duolingo Turkish (I was starting to find it hard to assimilate the vocabulary and the grammar at the same time), I just have the site layout set to Polish.

Hrvatski jezični portal is great. I had it open a lot while learning Turkish to check whether the words shared with Serbian were Arabic, Persian or Greek loanwords. I think the last one I looked up was temel (sr. temelj), which apparently comes from Greek themélion. Fortunately I was planning to learn one of those three languages anyway (Arabic), so the inevitable wanderlust that came from it wasn't all negative. :lol:

EDIT: I just realised that Duolingo has Portuguese, French and Italian for Spanish-speakers! I'll definitely have to go through those at a later date, I think doing so much translation between different Romance languages would definitely help me reduce interference between them and make sure I can speak the other three independently and not just as dialects of Spanish.
Last edited by Saim on 2016-11-17, 4:50, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby voron » 2016-11-16, 23:51

Hrvatski jezični portal is great. I had it open a lot while learning Turkish to check whether the words shared with Serbian were Arabic, Persian or Greek loanwords. I think the last one I looked up was temel (sr. temelj), which apparently comes from Greek themélion. Fortunately I was planning to learn one of those three languages anyway (Arabic), so the inevitable wanderlust that came from it wasn't all negative. :lol:


Checking for etymology of words is great, it definitely helps the words sink. I'd also recommend the egymological dictionary of Turkish http://www.etimolojiturkce.com/ (unless you know it already). When I need to memorize an Arabic word, I type it or its 3-literal root on etimoloji, and it gives me the list of related words in Turkish if any.

For example, if I want to memorize لقاء (meeting), which is a part of the common expression إلى اللقاء (see you later), by looking it up on etimoloji I find out that there is a word derived from it in Turkish: mülakat (interview), which is a word I know very well, and the root sounds in müLaKat help me remember لقاء too.

Saim wrote:Teşekkür! I'll mostly focus on Eastern Arabic, because I'd really like to be able to understand music better and converse in the language for once. I might start reading Arabic news after a couple of months as well though, over the past couple of years I tortured myself quite a lot with formal Arabic vocabulary and journalistic texts, which has given me a fair amount of passive vocabulary (which is reinforced by Punjabi, Urdu and Hebrew), so it won't be too difficult to get back into it.

You make me wanderlust for Syrian sooo much. Infact I had started the Syrian Arabic book (functional course) and done like 4 chapters from it, but then got distracted with something else (Kurdish maybe). I'll be following your progress anyway and get motivated from it. :) Let's hope we both will be proficient in both MSA and Syrian soon inşallah.

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby dEhiN » 2016-11-17, 4:08

Saim wrote:Teşekkür!

Is it more common to say teşekkür or teşekkürler? Because in English we say thanks, I've always generally say it with the plural suffix: teşekkürler. But what's more common among Turkish speakers?
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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-11-17, 4:36

dEhiN wrote:
Saim wrote:Teşekkür!

Is it more common to say teşekkür or teşekkürler? Because in English we say thanks, I've always generally say it with the plural suffix: teşekkürler. But what's more common among Turkish speakers?

I'm pretty sure you can only say teşekkürler in Turkish and teşekkür on its own doesn't mean 'thanks', but I've made that mistake myself before (I think I even made it on the Turkish forum once). You can also say teşekkür ederim, though, or sağ ol(un).

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby dEhiN » 2016-11-17, 4:41

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:
Saim wrote:Teşekkür!

Is it more common to say teşekkür or teşekkürler? Because in English we say thanks, I've always generally say it with the plural suffix: teşekkürler. But what's more common among Turkish speakers?

I'm pretty sure you can only say teşekkürler in Turkish and teşekkür on its own doesn't mean 'thanks', but I've made that mistake myself before (I think I even made it on the Turkish forum once). You can also say teşekkür ederim, though, or sağ ol(un).

Yeah that's why I never said teşekkür by itself, since I learned it as meaning only "thank". (Maybe you taught me that?!) I also know teşekkür edermin but I know that as being formal and some Turkish speakers have told me before that it's a bit archaic.

But since Saim wrote it wout the plural suffix, I was curious if that works or if it was a typo on his part.
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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby Saim » 2016-11-17, 4:58

Yeah I think you guys are right about teşekkürler/teşekkür ederim.

voron wrote:Checking for etymology of words is great, it definitely helps the words sink. I'd also recommend the egymological dictionary of Turkish http://www.etimolojiturkce.com/ (unless you know it already). When I need to memorize an Arabic word, I type it or its 3-literal root on etimoloji, and it gives me the list of related words in Turkish if any.


Looks like a great resource, thanks! :D

For example, if I want to memorize لقاء (meeting), which is a part of the common expression إلى اللقاء (see you later), by looking it up on etimoloji I find out that there is a word derived from it in Turkish: mülakat (interview), which is a word I know very well, and the root sounds in müLaKat help me remember لقاء too.


In Hindi-Urdu the word ملاقات/मुलाकात means "meeting" or "encounter" and it's used quite a lot:

اتوار کو ملاقات ہو گی انشا‏ء اللہ
itwaar ko mulaqaat ho gi inshallah
We will meet on Sunday.

You make me wanderlust for Syrian sooo much. Infact I had started the Syrian Arabic book (functional course) and done like 4 chapters from it, but then got distracted with something else (Kurdish maybe). I'll be following your progress anyway and get motivated from it. :) Let's hope we both will be proficient in both MSA and Syrian soon inşallah.


Inşallah. :)

But I thought your 2017 goal was to be conversant in both Eastern Arabic and MSA? Or are you focusing on a variety other than Levantine?

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby eskandar » 2016-11-17, 7:43

Saim wrote:I think the last one I looked up was temel (sr. temelj), which apparently comes from Greek themélion.

I can't read this word without chuckling and thinking of Karadenizli jokes. "Temel" is also a name used in Turkish jokes to indicate someone from the Black Sea region, as they're stereotyped as being backwards idiots. Voron, do you know any such jokes?
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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-11-17, 8:25

Ohh, I know some of those jokes!

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby voron » 2016-11-17, 18:34

Saim wrote:But I thought your 2017 goal was to be conversant in both Eastern Arabic and MSA? Or are you focusing on a variety other than Levantine?

Of course I'm focusing on Syrian, I have never said otherwise. :) I have met many Syrians and one of my best friends is Syrian, and since there's a chance I'll connect my future work and life with Turkey, I'll get to meet a lot more Syrians, while for Levantine I don't think I have ever talked with anyone from Lebanon.

eskandar wrote:I can't read this word without chuckling and thinking of Karadenizli jokes. "Temel" is also a name used in Turkish jokes to indicate someone from the Black Sea region, as they're stereotyped as being backwards idiots. Voron, do you know any such jokes?

I have heard many jokes about Laz but honestly I didn't know the stereotypical name of the character is Temel (apparently it even has its own entry in wiki: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temel).

Here is one. Apparently since it was told to me by my Kurdish friend, it's the Kurdish character that is the smart one in this joke :). I'll copypaste from here: http://www.uludagsozluk.com/k/k%C3%BCrt ... lar%C4%B1/
laz demiş ki haçan usagum bu yol çok uzundur.. gel demiş birbirimizin sırtına sırayla binelim ustteki türkü söylesin.. türkü bitince de sıra diğerine geçsin.. kürt kabul etmiş.. laz binmiş kurdun sırtına başlamış şarkı söylemeye birkaç dakika sürmüş.. inmis aşağı bu kez kürt lazin sırtına binmiş başlamış lo lo lo diye türkü söylemeye 10 dk geçmiş 20 dk geçmiş 1 saat geçmiş türkü bitmemiş.. laz sıkılıp demiş ki hacan bu şarkı bitmedi mu ? kürt de demiş ki ya ne bitmesi daha bu lolo'nun lolo'su var

Laz said: "Look buddy, we have a long road ahead. How about one of us mounts the other's back and sings a song, and when the song is over it's the other's turn?" Kurd accepted. Laz mounted Kurd's back and started a song, and it lasted for several minutes. He got off and this time Kurd mounted Laz's back and started his song: "Lo lo lo". 10 minutes passed, 20 minutes passed, 1 hour passed but the song was still not over. Laz got tired and said: "Buddy isn't the song over yet"? Kurd said: "It's far from over, there is an extra "lo lo" part of this "lo lo", and I haven't got to the "le le" and "la la" parts yet."

This joke refers to the Kurdish national music genre "dengbej", which is a story about days gone, either a historical event or a love story, told in a singing manner with improvised lyrics, and they often have "lololo" or "lelele" in their refrains. Some dengbej pieces can last for hours.

An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEsXsPBkuec

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby eskandar » 2016-11-22, 6:39

vijayjohn wrote:Ohh, I know some of those jokes!

Share some!!

Thanks for the Laz joke, voron. Here are some "Temel" jokes I found online in English. I'm sure you can find many more in Turkish.
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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-11-22, 6:52

eskandar wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Ohh, I know some of those jokes!

Share some!!

Well, I got mine from here. It has some Nasreddin Hoca jokes, too (and starts with them. I know even more Hoca jokes, or some variation of those, because they're pretty popular even in India and I have a bunch of cartoons with such jokes from there). Almost all of the jokes there are in both Turkish and English (though the English versions tend to be a bit more embellished than their Turkish counterparts, and there seem to be quite a few typos in the Turkish).

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby voron » 2016-11-27, 13:40

Dakle, Saim, kako ti ide sa sirijskim arapskim? Da li si ga već naučio da pričaš tečno? :)

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby Saim » 2016-11-27, 14:30

voron wrote:Dakle, Saim, kako ti ide sa sirijskim arapskim? Da li si ga već naučio da pričaš tečno? :)


Pa onako, još nisam toliko puno naučio ali dobro mi ide, otprilike. Završio sam 8 lekcija (ima ih 18) iz udžbenika Routledge Colloquial Levantine Arabic, a iz Syrian Arabic: a functional course 4/8. Vidim da mi znanje urdua dosta puno pomaže. Mislim da ću u januaru čak i krenuti da čitam arapske novine (dakle da vežbam malo i fusha), s obzirom da mi čitanje na urdu-u toliko dobro ide. Ne znam kad ću krenuti s časovima levantskog arapskog na Skajpu: verovatno je bolje što pre da krenem, ali s druge strane hteo bih samo da vežbam kroz razgovor a ne da me uče (odnosno da učitelj izvuče neke materijale s vokabularom pa da mi drži predavanje kao da smo u nekoj učionici sa još 10 učenika), znaš?

A tebi kako ide?

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby voron » 2016-11-27, 19:23

Saim wrote:A tebi kako ide?

Meni zasada ne ide nikako jer nisam još počeo da učim dijalekat. Još uvek vežbam standard. Naučio sam dosta puno reči i više manje znam gramatiku. Trebalo bi i meni da počnem da pričam sa izvornim govornicima što pre.

Kao što sam napisao u svom dnevniku, do nove godine (ili možda malo kasnije) planiram da završim sva 3 dela knjige "Medinski arapski", a takođe da preslušam Pimslerov kurs iz standardnog arapskog. Nakon toga, želim da krenem i sa dijalektom. Nadam se da će mi poći za rukom.

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby voron » 2016-11-28, 17:02

Da li si našao neku dobru rap grupu na sirijskom dijalektu? Ajde deli se :)

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby Saim » 2016-11-29, 4:33

voron wrote:Trebalo bi i meni da počnem da pričam


Čini mi se da se kaže trebalo bi i ja da počnem. Sećam se da su mi ispravili tu konstrukciju (mislim da sam rekao njima treba da idu* umesto oni treba da idu) u Novom Sadu u letnjoj školi.

trebati + zamenica u nominativu + glagol
trebati + zamenica u dativu + imenica u nominativu

Nadam se da će mi poći za rukom.


'Oće, 'oće. إن شاء الله‎‎ :P

voron wrote:Da li si našao neku dobru rap grupu na sirijskom dijalektu? Ajde deli se :)


Bu Kulthoum - Junud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1WwslzE48o

U Palestini i Libanu ima malo više, Bu Kulthoum je jedini baš sirijski reper kojeg znam.

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Re: Saim's blog 2014-2016

Postby eskandar » 2016-11-29, 6:50

^ Nice one - love that he's rapping over Liquid Swords. I don't know of many other Syrian MCs (besides Omar Offendum, but he mostly raps in English) but there's tons (I mean tons) of great Palestinian rappers if you guys are interested beyond Syria... I can recommend some songs that have English subtitles/translations available, too, like this one:

https://youtu.be/5zGnGeiMun8

(The bit in the refrain about Ziad Rahbani is a reference to this famous song sarcastically lambasting the sectarian environment in Lebanon)
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