Zhuangzi: where do I find someone who has forgotten words

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Bubulus
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Zhuangzi: where do I find someone who has forgotten words

Postby Bubulus » 2017-06-14, 6:15

The text consists of the last sentence of the book of Zhuangzi (Chuang-tzu), chapter 26.

Note that a 荃 was a tool made of bamboo that served as a trap for catching fish.

Classical Chinese original:
荃者所以在魚,得魚而忘荃;蹄者所以在兔,得兔而忘蹄;言者所以在意,得意而忘言。吾安得忘言之人而與之言哉?
[flag=]zh-CN[/flag]Mandarin reading: quán zhě suǒ yǐ zài yú, dé yú ér wàng quán; tí zhě suǒ yǐ zài tù, dé tù ér wàng tí; yán zhě suǒ yǐ zài yì, dé yì ér wàng yán. wú ān dé wàng yán zhī rén ér yǔ zhī yán zāi?
[flag=]yue-HK[/flag]Cantonese reading: chyun4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 yu4, dak1 yu4 yi4 mong4 chyun4; tai4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 tou3, dak1 tou3 yi4 mong4 tai4; yin4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 yi3, dak1 yi3 yi4 mong4 yin4. ng4 on1 dak1 mong4 yin4 ji1 yan4 yi4 yu5 ji1 yin4 joi1?
Middle Chinese reading: tshjwen tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX ngjo, tok ngjo nyi mjang tshjwen; dej tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX thuH, tok thuH nyi mjang dej; ngjon tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX 'iH, tok 'iH nyi mjang ngjon. ngu 'an tok mjang ngjon tsyi nyin yoX tsyi ngjon tsoj?


[flag=]en[/flag] Fish-traps are for getting fish; get the fish and forget the trap. Rabbit-snares are for getting rabbits, get the rabbit and forget the snare. Words are for getting ideas; get the idea and forget the words. Where do I find someone who has forgotten words, so that I [can] have a word with them?

[flag=]es[/flag] Las trampas para peces son para atrapar peces; toma el pez y olvídate de la trampa. Los cepos para conejos son para atrapar conejos; toma el conejo y olvídate del cepo. Las palabras son para captar ideas; capta la idea y olvídate de las palabras. ¿Dónde encuentro a alguien que se haya olvidado de las palabras para [poder] hablar con esa persona?
[flag=]la[/flag] Pedicae piscariae ad capiendos pisces adhibentur; tene piscem et obliviscere pedicae. Laquei cuniculares ad capiendos cuniculos adhibentur; tene cuniculum et obliviscere laquei. Verba ad capiendas notiones adhibentur; tene notionem et obliviscere verborum. Ubi inveniam qui verborum oblitus sit ut cum eo colloquar?

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Re: Zhuangzi: where do I find someone who has forgotten words

Postby Dormouse559 » 2017-06-14, 18:00

Attempting French. It's somehow visually shorter than the Spanish, which makes me suspicious. :para: More seriously, I'm not certain I've picked the right verbs or if there's a way to improve the parallelism.

Classical Chinese original:
荃者所以在魚,得魚而忘荃;蹄者所以在兔,得兔而忘蹄;言者所以在意,得意而忘言。吾安得忘言之人而與之言哉?
[flag=]zh-CN[/flag]Mandarin reading: quán zhě suǒ yǐ zài yú, dé yú ér wàng quán; tí zhě suǒ yǐ zài tù, dé tù ér wàng tí; yán zhě suǒ yǐ zài yì, dé yì ér wàng yán. wú ān dé wàng yán zhī rén ér yǔ zhī yán zāi?
[flag=]yue-HK[/flag]Cantonese reading: chyun4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 yu4, dak1 yu4 yi4 mong4 chyun4; tai4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 tou3, dak1 tou3 yi4 mong4 tai4; yin4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 yi3, dak1 yi3 yi4 mong4 yin4. ng4 on1 dak1 mong4 yin4 ji1 yan4 yi4 yu5 ji1 yin4 joi1?
Middle Chinese reading: tshjwen tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX ngjo, tok ngjo nyi mjang tshjwen; dej tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX thuH, tok thuH nyi mjang dej; ngjon tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX 'iH, tok 'iH nyi mjang ngjon. ngu 'an tok mjang ngjon tsyi nyin yoX tsyi ngjon tsoj?


[flag=]en[/flag] Fish-traps are for getting fish; get the fish and forget the trap. Rabbit-snares are for getting rabbits, get the rabbit and forget the snare. Words are for getting ideas; get the idea and forget the words. Where do I find someone who has forgotten words, so that I [can] have a word with them?

[flag=]es[/flag] Las trampas para peces son para atrapar peces; toma el pez y olvídate de la trampa. Los cepos para conejos son para atrapar conejos; toma el conejo y olvídate del cepo. Las palabras son para captar ideas; capta la idea y olvídate de las palabras. ¿Dónde encuentro a alguien que se haya olvidado de las palabras para [poder] hablar con esa persona?
[flag=]fr[/flag] Les nasses servent à attraper des poissons ; obtiens le poisson et oublie la nasse. Les collets à lapins servent à attraper des lapins ; obtiens le lapin et oublie le collet. Les mots servent à saisir des idées ; obtiens l'idée et oublie les mots. Où trouve-je quelqu'un qui ait oublié les mots pour que je parle / puisse parler avec lui ? :?:
[flag=]la[/flag] Pedicae piscariae ad capiendos pisces adhibentur; tene piscem et obliviscere pedicae. Laquei cuniculares ad capiendos cuniculos adhibentur; tene cuniculum et obliviscere laquei. Verba ad capiendas notiones adhibentur; tene notionem et obliviscere verborum. Ubi inveniam qui verborum oblitus sit ut cum eo colloquar?
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

h34
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Re: Zhuangzi: where do I find someone who has forgotten words

Postby h34 » 2017-06-18, 8:17

Trying German, using the verb einfangen, 'to capture' (both literally and figuratively). Gedanken austauschen, lit. 'to exchange thoughts', is a bit wordy but IMO it would match the previous sentence better than just reden/sprechen, 'to talk' or Worte wechseln, 'to talk', lit. 'to exchange words'.

Classical Chinese original:
荃者所以在魚,得魚而忘荃;蹄者所以在兔,得兔而忘蹄;言者所以在意,得意而忘言。吾安得忘言之人而與之言哉?
[flag=]zh-CN[/flag]Mandarin reading: quán zhě suǒ yǐ zài yú, dé yú ér wàng quán; tí zhě suǒ yǐ zài tù, dé tù ér wàng tí; yán zhě suǒ yǐ zài yì, dé yì ér wàng yán. wú ān dé wàng yán zhī rén ér yǔ zhī yán zāi?
[flag=]yue-HK[/flag]Cantonese reading: chyun4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 yu4, dak1 yu4 yi4 mong4 chyun4; tai4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 tou3, dak1 tou3 yi4 mong4 tai4; yin4 je2 so2 yi4 joi6 yi3, dak1 yi3 yi4 mong4 yin4. ng4 on1 dak1 mong4 yin4 ji1 yan4 yi4 yu5 ji1 yin4 joi1?
Middle Chinese reading: tshjwen tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX ngjo, tok ngjo nyi mjang tshjwen; dej tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX thuH, tok thuH nyi mjang dej; ngjon tsyaeX srjoX yiX dzojX 'iH, tok 'iH nyi mjang ngjon. ngu 'an tok mjang ngjon tsyi nyin yoX tsyi ngjon tsoj?


[flag=]en[/flag] Fish-traps are for getting fish; get the fish and forget the trap. Rabbit-snares are for getting rabbits, get the rabbit and forget the snare. Words are for getting ideas; get the idea and forget the words. Where do I find someone who has forgotten words, so that I [can] have a word with them?
[flag=]de[/flag] Mit Fischreusen fängt man Fische ein; hat man die Fische, vergisst man die Reusen.
Mit Hasenfallen fängt man Hasen ein; hat man die Hasen, vergisst man die Fallen.
Mit Worten fängt man Gedanken ein; hat man die Gedanken, vergisst man die Worte.
Wo finde ich einen Menschen, der die Worte vergessen hat, sodass ich mit ihm Gedanken austauschen (/reden, sprechen, Worte wechseln) kann?

[flag=]es[/flag] Las trampas para peces son para atrapar peces; toma el pez y olvídate de la trampa. Los cepos para conejos son para atrapar conejos; toma el conejo y olvídate del cepo. Las palabras son para captar ideas; capta la idea y olvídate de las palabras. ¿Dónde encuentro a alguien que se haya olvidado de las palabras para [poder] hablar con esa persona?
[flag=]fr[/flag] Les nasses servent à attraper des poissons ; obtiens le poisson et oublie la nasse. Les collets à lapins servent à attraper des lapins ; obtiens le lapin et oublie le collet. Les mots servent à saisir des idées ; obtiens l'idée et oublie les mots. Où trouve-je quelqu'un qui ait oublié les mots pour que je parle / puisse parler avec lui ? :?:
[flag=]la[/flag] Pedicae piscariae ad capiendos pisces adhibentur; tene piscem et obliviscere pedicae. Laquei cuniculares ad capiendos cuniculos adhibentur; tene cuniculum et obliviscere laquei. Verba ad capiendas notiones adhibentur; tene notionem et obliviscere verborum. Ubi inveniam qui verborum oblitus sit ut cum eo colloquar?


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