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FTFYvijayjohn wrote:I have also heard from every Quebecker ever that French speakers don't want outsiders to learn their language unless they learn to get it exactly right
The argument against Wikipedia’s palawa kani page, however, is even more complicated. For one thing, palawa kani is neither an organically developed language nor a completely invented one. It’s part of a 20-year project to reconstruct and unify up to a dozen extinct Tasmanian indigenous languages, of which only fragments have been preserved. In addition to managing palawa kani’s development, the TAC promotes its use within the aboriginal community and sets rules for who can use the language, and what they can do with it.
Further complicating matters, the Tasmanian Aboriginal Center (TAC), which filed the complaint, isn’t simply arguing about US or even Australian copyright law. It’s appealing to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which it says allows it control over how the language is used.
TAC language program coordinator Annie Reynolds says that palawa kani should not become available to the general public "until aborigines themselves are familiar and competent with it." A use policy for the language, sent to The Verge, asks any non-aboriginal person or company to submit an official request if they want to use the language for any reason. Words for geographical features, plants, and animals are acceptable, but they draw the line at using them for "farms, office buildings, educational facilities, homes, streets, etc. which have no connection to collective aboriginal values."
Indigenous intellectual property rights have been a topic of research and discussion for decades now. Often, they come up in the context of "biopiracy" — using indigenous medical knowledge to create and patent drugs without informing or compensating the groups behind them. In many cases, they feel intuitively ethical. But they can be difficult to square with existing copyright law.
mōdgethanc wrote:FTFYvijayjohn wrote:I have also heard from every Quebecker ever that French speakers don't want outsiders to learn their language unless they learn to get it exactly right
linguoboy wrote:mōdgethanc wrote:FTFYvijayjohn wrote:I have also heard from every Quebecker ever that French speakers don't want outsiders to learn their language unless they learn to get it exactly right
You know, I never had this trouble--not in France, not in Québec. They just seemed happy I was making an effort--you know, like every other place I've ever been.
linguoboy wrote:mōdgethanc wrote:FTFYvijayjohn wrote:I have also heard from every Quebecker ever that French speakers don't want outsiders to learn their language unless they learn to get it exactly right
You know, I never had this trouble--not in France, not in Québec. They just seemed happy I was making an effort--you know, like every other place I've ever been.
Prowler wrote:From my experience German speakers, Germans in particular, seem a bit uncomfortable with the idea of a foreigner attempting to speak German with them, especially if he's not fluent in it. I've tried to type in German with Germans online in the past... and some either replied to me in English or just ignored me. Maybe I was unlucky dunno, since the Austrians actually seemed positively surprised "oh you speak German? Didn't expect that "
vijayjohn wrote:linguoboy wrote:mōdgethanc wrote:FTFYvijayjohn wrote:I have also heard from every Quebecker ever that French speakers don't want outsiders to learn their language unless they learn to get it exactly right
You know, I never had this trouble--not in France, not in Québec. They just seemed happy I was making an effort--you know, like every other place I've ever been.
Maybe this works differently if you're a fellow Canadian as opposed to a complete foreigner?Prowler wrote:From my experience German speakers, Germans in particular, seem a bit uncomfortable with the idea of a foreigner attempting to speak German with them, especially if he's not fluent in it. I've tried to type in German with Germans online in the past... and some either replied to me in English or just ignored me. Maybe I was unlucky dunno, since the Austrians actually seemed positively surprised "oh you speak German? Didn't expect that "
I keep hearing people saying things to this effect, but that hasn't really been my experience. But then I've also met one or two monolingual German-speakers. Also, the first time I took Lufthansa (with my mom, from Washington, D. C. to Frankfurt en route to Chennai, when I was maybe nine?), the lady sitting next to us was from Heidelberg and was thrilled that I spoke even a little bit of German since she spoke barely any English.
linguoboy wrote:My experience is that some Germans are embarrassed to speak German in a predominately Anglophone environment. Unter vier Augen it would be fine, but out in public they would prefer not to draw attention to themselves at all.
I haven't met too many monolingual Germans outside of Germany. The one time I remember well it was a hapless Siemens employee trying to navigate the Paris Métro after being robbed by a prostitute.
Prowler wrote:Maybe they fear some possible discrimination or dealing with people who think making Nazi jokes in front of them is funny?
Prowler wrote:That is an... interesting story.
vijayjohn wrote:linguoboy wrote:You know, I never had this trouble--not in France, not in Québec. They just seemed happy I was making an effort--you know, like every other place I've ever been.
Maybe this works differently if you're a fellow Canadian as opposed to a complete foreigner?
Aurinĭa wrote:vijayjohn wrote:linguoboy wrote:You know, I never had this trouble--not in France, not in Québec. They just seemed happy I was making an effort--you know, like every other place I've ever been.
Maybe this works differently if you're a fellow Canadian as opposed to a complete foreigner?
That wouldn't surprise me.
linguoboy wrote:raised by Scandihoovians
Aurinĭa wrote:linguoboy wrote:raised by Scandihoovians
Raised by what?
Prowler wrote:To be fair, that sort of, I dunno what to call it(elitism perhaps?) is quite common all over the world.
linguoboy wrote:Aurinĭa wrote:linguoboy wrote:raised by Scandihoovians
Raised by what?
People of Scandinavian descent living in the Upper Midwest.Prowler wrote:To be fair, that sort of, I dunno what to call it(elitism perhaps?) is quite common all over the world.
Ethnonationalism?
Traditionally, language has been one of the chief defining characteristics of any ethnicity. Recent massive language shifts have confused things, though. So you have, for instance, Irish people referring to Irish as their "mother tongue" when 98% of them learn it in school.
I never wanted to be one of those Americans who claims a heritage without any idea what it entails, which is why I've learned German and Irish, read a lot of Continental and Irish history, and lived in Europe. I'm definitely an exception in this regard.
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