Confusion Between Similar Languages

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dEhiN
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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-08, 3:24

vijayjohn wrote:EDIT: Maybe I'm Kenny's Indian-American language-whorejohn alter ego. :whistle:

How should I read that? Is Kenny's alter-ego a language john who happens to be Indian-American? Or is he an Indian-American who is a language john? Which phrase is the adjectival descriptor, and which is the nominal phrase describing the main characteristic of the alter-ego? (Ok I'm being needlessly wordy...but it's fun :D!)

Edit: I really gotta proof my posts before I sit send!
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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-08, 4:49

I'm an alter ego who's Indian-American and a language john; there's no "main characteristic." ;)

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby OldBoring » 2017-01-08, 5:46

So is vijayjohn Vijay's john?

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-08, 6:46

No, but I am a john in one sense and could be a john in another sense if I ever went to East Asia!

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby Prowler » 2017-01-11, 20:25

Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian, Bulgarian.

Well yeah, sorry for not being able to read Cyrillic yet.

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-11, 20:39

Prowler wrote:Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian, Bulgarian.

Well yeah, sorry for not being able to read Cyrillic yet.

You only need to learn three characters:

ї
ў
ъ

Only Ukrainian has ї. The Ukrainians employ в for the allophone of /v/ rendered with ў in Belarusian. (If you learn a little East Slavic, you'll soon see that Belarusian orthography is phonetic to a fault.) And if you ever see syllabic or final ъ, you know you're either dealing with pre-Revolutionary Russian, Old Church Slavonic, or Bulgarian.

With that in mind, try this quiz:

(A) Запрашаем да галасавання выбару найлепшых артыкулаў 2016 года.
(B) Сделать Америку великой снова!
(C) Тръмп е най-възрастният избиран за първи път президент на САЩ.
(D) Правонаступницею Російської імперії стала Російська республіка.
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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby Prowler » 2017-01-11, 20:56

linguoboy wrote:
Prowler wrote:Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian, Bulgarian.

Well yeah, sorry for not being able to read Cyrillic yet.

You only need to learn three characters:

ї
ў
ъ

Only Ukrainian has ї. The Ukrainians employ в for the allophone of /v/ rendered with ў in Belarusian. (If you learn a little East Slavic, you'll soon see that Belarusian orthography is phonetic to a fault.) And if you ever see syllabic or final ъ, you know you're either dealing with pre-Revolutionary Russian, Old Church Slavonic, or Bulgarian.

With that in mind, try this quiz:

(A) Запрашаем да галасавання выбару найлепшых артыкулаў 2016 года.
(B) Сделать Америку великой снова!
(C) Тръмп е най-възрастният избиран за първи път президент на САЩ.
(D) Правонаступницею Російської імперії стала Російська республіка.

Oh? Let me try, then:

(A) Belarussian
(B) Russian
(C) Bulgarian
(D) Ukrainian

What's my score?

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-11, 21:06

Image
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby Prowler » 2017-01-11, 21:11

Well that wasn't too complicated. Btw, unrelated but being a Straight A student is something that doesn't exist here past 9th grade. From 5th to 9th grade our final grades go from 1 to 5. But from 10th grade on(including uni) they go from 0 to 20... not many people get 20s, especially not at subjects that aren't math, English, German(got a 20 in my first German test bohohoh) and such.

The best grade Iv'e gotten in uni thus far was a 17. That felt good.

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-11, 21:17

I haven't gotten pure letter grades since grade school. In high school, our final grades were worked out to one one-thousandth of a percentage point for the purpose of ranking us (and I once saw two students differ in rank by 0.001).
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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby Prowler » 2017-01-11, 21:21

linguoboy wrote:I haven't gotten pure letter grades since grade school. In high school, our final grades were worked out to one one-thousandth of a percentage point for the purpose of ranking us (and I once saw two students differ in rank by 0.001).

Oh? Interesting.

Back to language confusion, well not really what this thread is about but there's been times it's taken me a while to realise an Australian speaker wasn't British. Yes, me and also several others thought for a while that Chase from House was British and not Australian.

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby linguoboy » 2017-01-11, 22:03

I think I mentioned elsewhere how I recently confused a Brummie for an Ozzie over the phone. I apologised and he just chuckled.
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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-12, 1:33

linguoboy wrote:With that in mind, try this quiz:

(A) Запрашаем да галасавання выбару найлепшых артыкулаў 2016 года.
(B) Сделать Америку великой снова!
(C) Тръмп е най-възрастният избиран за първи път президент на САЩ.
(D) Правонаступницею Російської імперії стала Російська республіка.

Of course I know what (B) means by now, but I feel like I can almost understand (A), (C), and (D) off the top of my head, too, and I'm pretty sure I should be able to do better than that in principle (but my Slavic languages are long dormant). So off the top of my head (with a bit of imaginative thinking thrown in to attempt a coherent (if not necessarily correct) translation):

(A) seems to be saying something about "the nicest(?) articles of (the year) 2016," maybe "let's choose the best articles from 2016 for the front page"? Idk.

The most sense I can make of (C) is "Trump is + (superlative adjective, or maybe adverb?) + (masculine noun, or adjective being used as a noun) + for the first time + president of the USA." Maybe "Trump is the most controversial presidential candidate ever in the USA"?

And (D)...I know what every word means except the first one. What does it mean, something to do with "right"? Maybe "the Russian Republic was the heir to the Russian Empire"?

I have a feeling I do not get an A+ for these suggested translations. :lol:

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-12, 2:20

Vijay, or anyone else who knows more than one Dravidian language, do you find you ever confused Dravidian languages? I've never looked into it, but I wonder if any of the major Dravidian languages are similar enough to cause confusion for learners?

I remember once in a restaurant hearing 2 guys speaking in what I was pretty sure was a Dravidian language. I could hear similarities to Tamil, but I didn't think they were speaking Tamil. (Even though I don't know the language myself, I've grown up around it enough to more or less be able to tell when someone is speaking it.) I also could hear similarities to what I thought was Hindi, or some other Indo-Aryan language. I finally asked them and they said it was Telugu!

I find for myself that I mix up b/v when writing Portuguese and Spanish. For example, escribir in Spanish is escrever in Portuguese. But when I'm writing, I forget which language uses which spelling. And I think because I know the person/people reading will understand me, I've never bothered to correct it in my mind. While something like ahora (Spanish) versus agora (Portuguese) I have straight in my mind and never mix up the spelling (unless I mix up the languages and start writing in Portuñol).
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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby Prowler » 2017-01-12, 2:26

dEhiN wrote:Vijay, or anyone else who knows more than one Dravidian language, do you find you ever confused Dravidian languages? I've never looked into it, but I wonder if any of the major Dravidian languages are similar enough to cause confusion for learners?

I remember once in a restaurant hearing 2 guys speaking in what I was pretty sure was a Dravidian language. I could hear similarities to Tamil, but I didn't think they were speaking Tamil. (Even though I don't know the language myself, I've grown up around it enough to more or less be able to tell when someone is speaking it.) I also could hear similarities to what I thought was Hindi, or some other Indo-Aryan language. I finally asked them and they said it was Telugu!

I find for myself that I mix up b/v when writing Portuguese and Spanish. For example, escribir in Spanish is escrever in Portuguese. But when I'm writing, I forget which language uses which spelling. And I think because I know the person/people reading will understand me, I've never bothered to correct it in my mind. While something like ahora (Spanish) versus agora (Portuguese) I have straight in my mind and never mix up the spelling (unless I mix up the languages and start writing in Portuñol).

Similar things happen to me with Dutch and German at times. If you asked me to type something in Dutch now it's possibly I'd type something like "Ik heb heute een Spiel gespeelt." :silly:

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Re: Confusion Between Similar Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-12, 4:32

dEhiN wrote:Vijay, or anyone else who knows more than one Dravidian language, do you find you ever confused Dravidian languages? I've never looked into it, but I wonder if any of the major Dravidian languages are similar enough to cause confusion for learners?

When hearing someone speak a Dravidian language (or basically any Indian language, or a Slavic language, etc.), I think the only reason why I don't get them confused is because I know a little bit of each of the languages in question. It also took me a long time to be able to distinguish written Kannada from written Telugu because the scripts for those two languages are really similar (and closely related).


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