Wanderlust support group 4

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Vlürch
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Vlürch » 2017-03-05, 8:57

Michael wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I think Uzbek pretty much always reminded me of Tajik or at least some variety of Persian what with all its o's. Jon O"zbekiston

Yeah, as it is Cyrillic-script Uzbek from which I have caught a slight wanderlust bug, that was the first thing that stuck out to me about its phonology, which appears completely uniform to that of Tajik (just like Azerbaijani's to that of Tehrani).

If the same joke was funny a thousand times...

Uzbek 101:
Rule #1: when in doubt, replace every vowel with O
Rule #2: you know what, replace every vowel with O
Rule #3: if you don't know the word for something, just say "boiler"
Rule #4: reproduce at the rate of a leporid fungus on steroids

I'm seriously wanderlusting Uzbek now. Oh God, not on top of non-stop poop storms... See what I did there? You bet I'm proud of myself, huh? Well, I am... even though I shouldn't, since that didn't even take any effort...

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Saim » 2017-03-05, 13:57

I hear Brazilian Portuguese several times a week here in the centre of Brisbane, and a couple of my close friends from school even have Brazilian coworkers. Maybe I should switch varieties?

(Anyone have any advice on how to go from Iberian to Brazilian Portuguese?).

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Osias » 2017-03-05, 17:17

Watch some Brazilian TV series.
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Michael » 2017-03-05, 19:35

Saim wrote:I hear Brazilian Portuguese several times a week here in the centre of Brisbane, and a couple of my close friends from school even have Brazilian coworkers. Maybe I should switch varieties?

(Anyone have any advice on how to go from Iberian to Brazilian Portuguese?).

Along with Osias' suggestion, I highly recommend two books in particular: McGraw-Hill Portuguese Verbs & Essentials of Grammar and Practice Makes Perfect: Basic Portuguese, both authored by Sue Tyson-Ward, a prominent name in the field of Portuguese-language instruction. As the author specializes in Iberian Portuguese, that's the variety that is prioritized in both books, but I was able to learn the basics of both varieties thanks to the former (I haven't used the latter yet).
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-06, 0:32

Saim wrote:Anyone have any advice on how to go from Iberian to Brazilian Portuguese?

Merge your sibilants, palatalize your t's and d's, and pronounce all your unstressed e's as [i] so you sound like some fucker who's monolingual in English? :D

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Saim » 2017-03-06, 4:37

Osias wrote:Watch some Brazilian TV series.


Any [h]ecomendações?

Michael wrote:Along with Osias' suggestion, I highly recommend two books in particular: McGraw-Hill Portuguese Verbs & Essentials of Grammar and Practice Makes Perfect: Basic Portuguese, both authored by Sue Tyson-Ward, a prominent name in the field of Portuguese-language instruction. As the author specializes in Iberian Portuguese, that's the variety that is prioritized in both books, but I was able to learn the basics of both varieties thanks to the former (I haven't used the latter yet).


Obrigado! :)

vijayjohn wrote:
Saim wrote:Anyone have any advice on how to go from Iberian to Brazilian Portuguese?

Merge your sibilants, palatalize your t's and d's, and pronounce all your unstressed e's as [i] so you sound like some fucker who's monolingual in English? :D


Wait what do you mean by merging sibilants? I recognise the other traits.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-06, 4:43

Saim wrote:Wait what do you mean by merging sibilants? I recognise the other traits.

Merge your [ʃ]s and [ʒ]s with your [s]s and [z]s (except for x and j, don't change those or else you'd just sound Korean or something :P).

Oh yeah, and I forgot about pronouncing your r's like h's in every environment that isn't prevocalic. ;)

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Michael » 2017-03-06, 5:24

vijayjohn wrote:
Saim wrote:Wait what do you mean by merging sibilants? I recognise the other traits.

Merge your [ʃ]s and [ʒ]s with your [s]s and [z]s (except for x and j, don't change those or else you'd just sound Korean or something :P).

He could also keep his preconsonantal/sentence-final [ʃ]s and [ʒ]s, so he would be able to pull off a carioca (from Rio de Janeiro) accent, but he would definitely have to substitute his [r]s for [ʀ]s or [h]s, if [ʀ] is not already present in his preferred accent of Iberian Portuguese, in order to stay as consistent as possible. Alternatively, he could keep the latter, being able to pull off a gaúcho (from the state of Rio Grande do Sul, the southernmost state of Brazil) accent, but would have to lose the former.
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby dEhiN » 2017-03-06, 7:19

Saim wrote:(Anyone have any advice on how to go from Iberian to Brazilian Portuguese?).

You could also join the (somewhat-related-to-Unilang) Whatsapp group that Yangfan, Meera, and I are in. About half of our members are brasileiros ranging from northeast to south. Although we have no paulista, paulistano, or carioca.

Oh and in regard to pronunciation, unless you specifically want to sound paulista, don't use English r!
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-06, 7:41

Michael wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Saim wrote:Wait what do you mean by merging sibilants? I recognise the other traits.

Merge your [ʃ]s and [ʒ]s with your [s]s and [z]s (except for x and j, don't change those or else you'd just sound Korean or something :P).

He could also keep his preconsonantal/sentence-final [ʃ]s and [ʒ]s, so he would be able to pull off a carioca (from Rio de Janeiro) accent

I know, not all Brazilians lack those sounds in those contexts. I was half-joking again. :)

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Michael » 2017-03-06, 7:49

vijayjohn wrote:I know, not all Brazilians lack those sounds in those contexts. I was half-joking again. :)

I knew that you knew that, but I mentioned it for Saim's sake. :)
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-06, 13:33

Michael wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I know, not all Brazilians lack those sounds in those contexts. I was half-joking again. :)

I knew that you knew that, but I mentioned it for Saim's sake. :)

Oh OK. I thought he knew that, too, but just wasn't sure what I was referencing for some reason.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Vlürch » 2017-03-06, 14:25

All this discussion of Portuguese and the fact that I just watched Arrival a few days ago, which had a random mention of Portuguese being different from other Romance languages in the beginning, as well as being reminded of their existence in the false friend thread, is making me consider getting back into all the big Romance languages at the same time again and learning a few new words or verb conjugations or whatever. The only times I've had wanderlusts for Portuguese are when I'm looking up Spanish words on Wiktionary and notice that they're the same in Portuguese, and wonder why Portuñol/Portunhol exists. One of the reasons I don't like Portuguese is that ugly ass digraph nh for /ɲ/. "Nyan Cat? Nah m8, it's Nhan Gato for Lusophones!" :twisted:

...and now that I've googled "nhan gato" in search for Portuguese references to Nyan Cat (which I did find, thankfully), for the first time in my life, I'm wanderlusting Vietnamese. I hope the Vietnamese nh is /n̥/ or something... if it's /ɲ/... kill me.. it can't be /ɲ/... oh shit. :whistle: ...and now it's growing on me. I'm starting to like the digraph nh. Oh well.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-06, 16:28

Vlürch wrote:...and now that I've googled "nhan gato" in search for Portuguese references to Nyan Cat (which I did find, thankfully), for the first time in my life, I'm wanderlusting Vietnamese. I hope the Vietnamese nh is /n̥/ or something... if it's /ɲ/... kill me.. it can't be /ɲ/... oh shit. :whistle: ...and now it's growing on me. I'm starting to like the digraph nh. Oh well.

The modern orthography was created by Portuguese Jesuits after all.

I'm getting a little wanderlusty for Russian from seeing Евгений Онегин and reading Lermontov, but not really because Russian sucks.
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby dEhiN » 2017-03-06, 16:31

linguoboy wrote:
Vlürch wrote:...and now that I've googled "nhan gato" in search for Portuguese references to Nyan Cat (which I did find, thankfully), for the first time in my life, I'm wanderlusting Vietnamese. I hope the Vietnamese nh is /n̥/ or something... if it's /ɲ/... kill me.. it can't be /ɲ/... oh shit. :whistle: ...and now it's growing on me. I'm starting to like the digraph nh. Oh well.

The modern orthography was created by Portuguese Jesuits after all.

For Vietnamese? Really? Huh, I always figured the modern orthography was taken from the French when they ruled Vietnam.
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-06, 16:35

dEhiN wrote:For Vietnamese? Really? Huh, I always figured the modern orthography was taken from the French when they ruled Vietnam.

No, the French built on earlier work by de Pina, d'Amaral, da Costa, and others. They were latecomers to Indochina, only colonising Vietnam in the second half of the 19th century, whereas Portuguese missionaries had been active there from the 16th.
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby Osias » 2017-03-06, 19:22

Saim wrote:
Osias wrote:Watch some Brazilian TV series.


Any [h]ecomendações?
Aqui a gente esbarra na questão do outro tópico, que "any ideas" é plural em inglês e "alguma ideia" é singular em português. Então a frase misturando as duas línguas fica bizarra porque a parte em português deveria estar no singular "recomendação" mas isso não bate com a lógica do "any" prévio.

ANYWAY, Vijayjonh (sic) estava vendo "Caminho das Índias" no youtube e Michael estava vendo "A Casa das Sete Mulheres", então recomendo caso queira ver algo que possa comentar com amigos foristas. Mas eu mesmo não vi nenhuma das duas, então recomendo "3 por cento" por ser uma produção recente que eu vi e que tem na Netfélix para você ver.
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-07, 0:51

linguoboy wrote:No, the French built on earlier work by de Pina, d'Amaral, da Costa, and others. They were latecomers to Indochina, only colonising Vietnam in the second half of the 19th century, whereas Portuguese missionaries had been active there from the 16th.

Portuguese missionaries really seem to have been active all over the so-called Old World at that time (except Oceania I guess?)! For some reason, I'm only gradually coming to realize that. And of course, they controlled both dEhiN's parents' hometown and mine around that time.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-07, 3:30

I guess people tend to forget that because Portugal was losing its empire just as the rest of the Great Powers were scrambling to consolidate theirs. (This is part of the reason, dEhiN, that missionary activity has such a bad rep in many parts of the globe.)
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Re: Wanderlust support group 4

Postby dEhiN » 2017-03-07, 21:41

linguoboy wrote:I guess people tend to forget that because Portugal was losing its empire just as the rest of the Great Powers were scrambling to consolidate theirs.

Yeah I'm starting to realize the Colonial Period was more complicated than I always thought. I always thought that each Great Power took control of a country in the beginning stages of the Colonial Period, and basically kept that country. So I assumed that the situation in Sri Lanka - with 3 different European countries controlling us - was an anomaly.

(This is part of the reason, dEhiN, that missionary activity has such a bad rep in many parts of the globe.)

Why exactly? Is it because missionary activity during time was mostly or solely about consolidating power, and not about some altruistic desire to spread a particular system of faith?
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