Random language thread 4

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby eskandar » 2017-02-08, 22:07

Never in Urdu. -ان is an animate plural in Persian (eg. مرد 'man', مردان 'men') and is very rarely used in Urdu when the writer wants to flaunt their Persian knowledge, or when an entire phrase is lifted from Persian (eg. you can find شاهِ مردان 'king of men' as an epithet of Imam Ali used in Urdu). But as you mention, *کتابان would be incorrect in Persian (since books are inanimate), so it wouldn't be correct in Urdu, either. Persian doesn't do different plurals for words ending in voiced or unvoiced consonants.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-09, 1:27

Vlürch wrote:Maybe you were thinking of the Persian loanword in Hindi/Urdu, Hindi (hi) बंदर / Urdu (ur) بندر (bandar), meaning "port, harbour"?

That definitely doesn't exist in Tamil! Or at least I'd have a hard time believing that it does.
dEhiN wrote:Well not so much as having to do with the act of sex, as with female genitalia.

Literally every word in Sanskrit refers to female genitalia. :P

I don't think it's really any crazier in Sanskrit than in English or a bunch of other languages; it's just that basically all we have of Sanskrit is written material and especially poetry. When you think about it, English has weird words for female genitalia, too. I mean, how do you associate a cat with a vagina?

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Osias » 2017-02-09, 1:44

That reminds me I also don't know "perereca" in English. Apparently "tree frog".
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-09, 6:05

eskandar wrote:I think you're right, but it's wild to me that he just appended the English -s as a plural for an Urdu word - I'd never heard that before.

I meant to respond to this as well. I'm pretty sure I've encountered occasional examples of this in other South Asian languages, too. I guess you could say it's a hyperforeignization of sorts (though one where the morpheme being attached and the word it's being attached to happen to be from completely different foreign languages).

I just remembered seeing a clip on YouTube of a very old Malayalam movie song from the 50s followed by the next half-minute or so that follows it in the movie. Movies at that time definitely didn't have nearly as much English as they do now, yet at the very end of the clip, one guy says, "[ɔˈɾu ʈu əˈɳaːs ɔɳˈɖɛŋgil t̪əˈɾuː]" 'give me two annas if you've got it'. The other guy responding to him says something like "[ɔˈɾu ʋəɳ əˈɳaːs ɪʈəŋgilɔɭɭiˈŋoːʈəɖikʲɯ]!" which I take to mean something like "don't come around asking me unless I get even 'one annas'!" in order to both reflect the poverty most Malayalees experienced in those days and poke fun at the first guy's use of English. (To anyone unfamiliar with the currency of India and Pakistan in the 50s, an anna was a coin worth 1/16 rupee).

EDIT: Watching that clip led me to also watch another clip of an old Muslim Malayalee song (from the 60s). It's so cute! I love Muslim songs in Malayalam so much. :)

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Lur » 2017-02-09, 11:45

mōdgethanc wrote:
Lur wrote:Fuck English.
I just love the irony of this post being in English.


Me too.

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Vlürch » 2017-02-09, 20:24

eskandar wrote:-ان is an animate plural in Persian (eg. مرد 'man', مردان 'men')

I keep forgetting animacy is a thing... :oops:
eskandar wrote:Persian doesn't do different plurals for words ending in voiced or unvoiced consonants.

Huh...
vijayjohn wrote:I don't think it's really any crazier in Sanskrit than in English or a bunch of other languages; it's just that basically all we have of Sanskrit is written material and especially poetry. When you think about it, English has weird words for female genitalia, too. I mean, how do you associate a cat with a vagina?

Hmm, I guess that's true.

Stupid question time: why are Indo-European languages such a mess when it comes to cognates? For example, Wiktionary claims that English (en) bad and Persian (fa) بد (bad) are not cognates while English (en) water and Sanskrit (sa) उदन् (udan) are. Hittite (hit) Image (wa-a-tar) is so similar to English that it's almost hard to believe it's a real Hittite word.

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-10, 2:20

In general, if two words look really similar, that's a strong reason to suspect that they are not cognates (i.e. not inherited from the same ancestor language). If they were, sound changes would have taken place in each language, and more likely than not, that would cause them not to resemble each other.

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Michael » 2017-02-10, 16:58

When you confuse Turkish with Azerbaijani…

(The phrase means "Stay calm!")

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-11, 7:57

So sakit means 'calm' in Azerbaijani?

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Michael » 2017-02-11, 9:23

vijayjohn wrote:So sakit means 'calm' in Azerbaijani?

I apologize; it actually means "quiet, silent".
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-11, 19:03

Mike, do you use cloze deletion in your Azerbaijani deck? I was trying to figure out how you got the green and red highlighting. I've thought of adding cloze deletion to my decks, but in total I have close to 2000 words, and changing the note type I use to include cloze deletion would require me to start the decks all over again. Do you find though that it helps with retention?
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Michael » 2017-02-11, 23:57

It's funny how I'm listening to some Turkish meyhaneci music, and an ad appears for an alehouse! :lol:

dEhiN wrote:Mike, do you use cloze deletion in your Azerbaijani deck? I was trying to figure out how you got the green and red highlighting. I've thought of adding cloze deletion to my decks, but in total I have close to 2000 words, and changing the note type I use to include cloze deletion would require me to start the decks all over again. Do you find though that it helps with retention?

No, I type in all answers, without needing to use cloze deletion. I have plenty of articles at my disposal just waiting to be read, which helps greatly with the consolidation of vocabulary; I don't need to make a program with a reputation for being tedious, even more tedious!
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Osias » 2017-02-12, 0:17

A kid from Brazilian parents born in Germany come to live in my parent neighborhood and the other kids from church asked him "Wow, you speak German? How is 'ball' in German?" and he goes "ballovisky".
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-12, 3:35

Michael wrote:No, I type in all answers, without needing to use cloze deletion.

You can set Anki up so you type in your answers? I didn't know that! Is that just on the computer version or also on the phone version?
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-12, 4:25

Michael wrote:It's funny how I'm listening to some Turkish meyhaneci music, and an ad appears for an alehouse! :lol:

:lol:

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Michael » 2017-02-12, 6:11

dEhiN wrote:
Michael wrote:No, I type in all answers, without needing to use cloze deletion.

You can set Anki up so you type in your answers? I didn't know that! Is that just on the computer version or also on the phone version?

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N: American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) | B1: Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Greek (el) | A2:  (sq) Persian (fa) Azerbaijani (az) | A1: Turkish (tr)
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby linguoboy » 2017-02-12, 6:25

Osias wrote:A kid from Brazilian parents born in Germany come to live in my parent neighborhood and the other kids from church asked him "Wow, you speak German? How is 'ball' in German?" and he goes "ballovisky".

My first college roommate seemed to think that any noun could be made German by adding the suffix "-schanke", so he would've said "Ballenschanke".
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-12, 7:21

Michael wrote:
dEhiN wrote:
Michael wrote:No, I type in all answers, without needing to use cloze deletion.

You can set Anki up so you type in your answers? I didn't know that! Is that just on the computer version or also on the phone version?

http://i.hizliresim.com/m4QBOY.jpg

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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby Dormouse559 » 2017-02-13, 1:50

My dad seems to have invented a word. He noticed a filmmaker's choice of shots diversified in later movies, so he said, "He's expanded his 'oeuvroire.'" I'm guessing he got "oeuvre" and "repertoire" mixed up.
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Re: Random language thread 4

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-13, 6:15

Last night, my dad expressed his surprise at the fact that I studied the kind of languages that he calls something like "forest people's languages" in Malayalam yet I had trouble with understanding Czech and especially Polish, which he thought was similar to Russian and should be easy to understand. I was like "okay, how much of this do you understand?" and pulled out TY Polish to the beginning of the last chapter (Chapter 20). He struggled to read the words in big letters at the top (the title): Czy podobało się w Polsce? and had no idea what it meant (he thought podobało meant something having to do with Polish :lol:) until he saw just below that that it means "did you like it in Poland?" Then I was like "try reading the dialogue!" and the first thing he sees is Czy podobało się pani w Polsce? so he's like "what does pani mean? Bread? Water?" (the "water" guess presumably being inspired by Hindi and the "bread" guess probably inspired by Spanish). Anyway, it didn't take me long to show him that it wasn't that easy. Then we got out his old Russian textbook, which I still have in my room, and ended up proving that he'd forgotten pretty much everything in it.

But then I got out TY Urdu. At first, he said, "But I can't read Urdu!" and I said, "No, no, I'm not going to make you read it. I'm going to read some of it to you and see how much you understand!" Then I turned it to Chapter 9, which has the title "Where is my wife?" and started reading one sentence (from the first two dialogues) at a time. This he actually understood pretty well, and he demonstrated this by translating or jokingly paraphrasing almost every sentence in Malayalam. Sometimes, he even added commentary. Like when I read out the sentence where Qasim suddenly wonders (on a crowded railway platform in Karachi) where his wife is, my dad was like "yeah, that's always the problem," and when I read the very end of the first dialogue where Qasim's wife finally shows up and he asks her where she was and tells her the train is about to leave, my dad filled in for his wife: "I was right here just chatting with my friends! Great, now you're going to write about this in your book, aren't you?!" He even managed to learn a bit about Pakistani geography.
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2017-02-13, 7:00, edited 1 time in total.


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