Bilingual messages അടിപൊളി തന്നെ!

[vijayjohn]

ചങ്ങാതിമാരേ Friends, UniLangers, fellow polyglots, in some languages, code switching തന്നെയാണ് പതിവ് is the norm. Also, നമ്മുടെ ഇടയിൽ ചിലർക്ക് code switching നല്ല രസം തന്നെ! അതുകൊണ്ട് code switching is just fun for some of us! So since this thread has been called for already, I thought I would try starting it. Please, ഇത് problem ആണെങ്കിലൊന്നറിയിക്കണേ! just let me know if this is a problem!

ഈ thread-ഇന്റെ title-ഇനോരു കഥയുണ്ട് . ഞാൻ Wikipedia-യിൽ ആയിരുന്നപ്പോൾ ഒരു Malayalee user എന്നോട് പറഞ്ഞതാണ്. "Bilingual messages അടിപൊളി തന്നെ!" എന്ന്. There's a story behind the title of this thread. When I was on Wikipedia, a Malayalee user said to me: "Bilingual messages adipoli thanne!" (roughly translated: Bilingual messages are awesome). So that's what that is. (BTW, I think I should note that while Malayalees do code-switch a lot, the way I'm doing it is not necessarily representative of how Malayalees actually do it. Malayalam isn't the language I'm most fluent in അതുകൊണ്ടെനിക്ക് ചൊവ്വേ അറിയത്തില്ല so I don't really know, what patterns exactly they use).

[IpseDixit]

[flag=]en[/flag][flag=]lld[/flag] I don't see perché why chest this thread should esser be n a problem! Fosc maybe l it would be caròtol nice if we metassane put the bandieres flag of the lengac languages we are using.

[IpseDixit]

[flag=]en[/flag][flag=]lld[/flag] it seems negun é nodoby is interested anymore te chest in this game...

[vijayjohn]

അയ്യോ! Oops! Sorry. എനിക്ക് ഏതായാലും ഇപ്പോഴും interest ഉണ്ട്. At least I'm still interested. Hopefully ഇച്ചിരെ കഴിഞ്ഞിട്ട് a little later I'll post something. ഇപ്പോഴേയല്ല, കുറേനേരം കഴിഞ്ഞിട്ട്. ഇന്നല്ലെങ്കിലും ചിലപ്പം നാളെയായിരിക്കും. Not right now, (but) after a while. And even if not today, maybe tomorrow.

[vijayjohn]

OK, I changed my mind. I'm too impatient. ഇപ്പോഴേ എന്തെങ്കിലും എഴുതണം. I have to write something right now.

I think the Malayalam spoken on this radio station is fairly representative of the way we talk. ഒത്തിരി realistic code switching ഉണ്ട്. എല്ലാം unscripted ആണെന്ന് തോന്നിThere's a lot of realistic code switching. I think it's all unscripted, so that might be why.

Also, I just remembered a silly song that uses code switching between Malayalam and English. പക്ഷേ അതിന്റെ വാക്കുകളെല്ലാം ഓർക്കുന്നോന്നെനിക്കൊരു സംശയം. But I doubt I remember all the words.

[IpseDixit]

[flag=]en[/flag][flag=]lld[/flag] it wasn't out demò à referred only to you

[JuxtapositionQMan]

[flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]Well, I d'ne sciis pri didn't know about tiu this thread. Mi I rather ŝatas ĝin like it, now ke mi that I knowas about it.

[vijayjohn]

[flag=]en[/flag][flag=]lld[/flag] it wasn't out demò à referred only to you

/ എനിക്കറിയാം, പക്ഷേ ഞാൻപോലും ഒന്നും പറഞ്ഞില്ലായിരുന്നെങ്കിൽ I know, but if even I hadn't said anything then this thread would really be screwed!

[flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]Well, I d'ne sciis pri didn't know about tiu this thread. Mi I rather ŝatas ĝin like it, now ke mi that I knowas about it.

Thanks! നിനക്കതിഷ്ടപ്പെട്ടത്തിൽ സന്തോഷം. Glad you like it. Hopefully some more people will come here over time, too.

[OldBoring]

[flag=]zh[/flag][flag=]it[/flag] 有一次我发了一个真实的 esempio di commutamento di codice:
Once I posted a real example of code switching:
viewtopic.php?p=910334#p910334
我弟弟和我的cugini mischiare 青田话和意大利语。现在我把italiano的部分也 tradurre in inglese.
My brother and cousins mix Italian and Qingtian dialect. But now I'm also gonna translate the Italian parts into English.

Premessa: 我弟弟 ha mandato una foto di un 台湾有名的演员, adesso他在罗马。
Background: my brother posts the pic of a famous Taiwanese actor who is in Rome now.

青田话 in rosso - 用汉字写太难了，quindi lo scriverò solo con l'AFI
Italiano / Romanesco in blu
Qingtian dialect in red - it's so difficult to write in Chinese hanzi, so I'll write only the IPA Italian/Romanesco in blue

弟弟 /æme/¹: Eh ormai mo' non lo so do' sta. Queste so' le foto de stamattina, stava a Piazza di Spagna.
Brother /æme/¹: Uh but now I don't know where he is. These are pics from this morning, he was in Spagna square.
[...]
Cugina /ɕome/²: Cazzo... me potevi di' prima? Cazzo cazzo cazzo [...] Eh ho capito, cazzo. Io pure sto a Roma, sto. Se ci annavo, l'avrei visto.
Cousin ɕome²: Shit... couldn't you tell me before? Shit shit shit [...] Yep I got it, shit. I'm in Rome too. If I had gone there, I would've seen him.
[...]
Cugina 2: /ɕo me, ɲi i læ məŋ ɕiŋ ɕi ɕi jɤʉ jo ni mən do mə? ɲi tsæʉ kʰi a kə a kə... lœ koŋ zaŋ kə li no/
Cousin 2: ɕome, what's the point of looking at all these movie stars? Go get a huh huh... get a husband!
æme: Sta... sta al negozio mio mo'... dai gli faccio... gli faccio una foto?
æme: He's... he's at my shop right now... come on, then I take... I take him a pic?
ɕo me: Ma che cazzo dici, come sta al negozio tuo? Ma che davero?
ɕo me: What the hell are you saying, how come he's at your shop? Really?
Cugina 2: "Ah /ɕo me3, ɲi tʰəŋ gi nəŋ pʰiɛ na nəŋ mə/ ma ti pare che va al negozio di /æ me/??
Cousin 2: Hey ɕo me, how come you believe him lying like this? You really think he goes to æme's shop?
Cousin 3: Ah /ɕo me3, ɲi wa sai ɕiə o, zæ ŋu ɕi ɕi, wa zæ a læ me ŋ ɕi dʒi nəŋ ha sʉ bə za/
Cousin 3: Hey ɕo me, let me see, you think you're still young? You still daydreaming like a baby girl.
[...]
æme: Mamma mia oh, ci credi veramente oh... vabbè.
æme: Oh Jesus, you really believe that... OK.[/color]
ɕome: Ma che ce credo... te sto a regge il gioco. /kʰa ɲi miɛ tsᵻ næ (给你面子呢), me/
ɕome: Sure not, I don't believe... I'm backing you up. Saving your face, æ me (reduction of "æ me").

Note:
¹æme: 我弟弟的famiglia小名
²ɕome: 我的cugina的famiglia小名
³Ah /ɕo me/: notare l'uso del vocativo romanesco "Ah" + 青田话小名, 虽然整句话都是青田话的。
Notes:
¹æme: my brother's family nickname
²ɕome: my cousin's family nickname
³Ah /ɕo me/ : note the usage of the Romanesco vocative "Ah" + Qingtianese nickname, even when the whole sentence is in Qingtianese.

[OldBoring]

U Portuñol Riverense é ũa forma de português falada na frontera entri Brazil i Uruguay, cũ fortes influensas du español. Quase ũa forma estándar de portuñol!
Riverense Portuñol is a form of Portuguese spoken in the border between Brazil and Uruguay, with strong influences from Spanish. Almost a standard form of Portuñol!

[melski]

[flag=]fr[/flag] [flag=]en[/flag] Ah, enfin, je peux at least practiser mon franglais completement freely! J'commençais à fearer que ce serait never possible! Anyway, j'vais juste giver un shot ou deux... Like, je ne suis pas un pro du codeswitching, I hope some fellow québécois va come over et starter à speaker le right franglais !
Ah, I can at least practise my Frenglish completely freely! I was starting to think it would never be possible! Anyway, i'll just give it a shot or two... Like, I'm no pro of codeswitching, I hope some fellow quebecker will come over and start speaking the right Frenglish!

You'll notice Frenglish takes English verbs and conjugates them with French endings (starter, speaker, practiser, giver...) I think this is very common in (informal) Quebec French, although I'm no expert at all.

Here's a more "realist" codeswitching phrase that could be said in France:
[flag=]fr[/flag] "Reportage live! Après le rush à l'Apple Store, où tous les clients prenaient des selfies avec leur smartphone, les employés ont du faire un break, sous peine de faire un burn-out. Notre journaliste embedded backstage nous indique que les soldes ont boosté les ventes des derniers modèles fashion. Voici maintenant le best-of du week-end !"
"Live report! After the rush at the Apple Store, where all clients were taking selfies with their smartphones, employees had to take a break in order to prevent a burn-out. Our embedded journalist backstage tells us those sales boosted sales of latest fashion products. Coming now, the week-end best-of!'

[vijayjohn]

/ Heheh, melski-യ്ക്കും ഈ thread ഇഷ്ടപ്പെട്ടുപോയേ? സന്തോഷം! you like this thread now, too, huh? I'm glad! Oh, and welcome to the bilingual thread.

പക്ഷേ But..."le best-of du week-end"?? Lol. "Best du week-end" എന്ന് പറഞ്ഞാൽ പോരേ? Couldn't you just say "best du week-end"? Why "best-of du"?

[OldBoring]

[flag=]fr[/flag] "Reportage live! Après le rush à l'Apple Store, où tous les clients prenaient des selfies avec leur smartphone, les employés ont du faire un break, sous peine de faire un burn-out. Notre journaliste embedded backstage nous indique que les soldes ont boosté les ventes des derniers modèles fashion. Voici maintenant le best-of du week-end !"
"Live report! After the rush at the Apple Store, where all clients were taking selfies with their smartphones, employees had to take a break in order to prevent a burn-out. Our embedded journalist backstage tells us those sales boosted sales of latest fashion products. Coming now, the week-end best-of!'

Italian media also use a lot of anglicisms... At least in France you have the Académie française.
That's how Italian media would write it:
[flag=]it[/flag] Reportage live!* Dopo il rush all'Apple Store, dove tutti i clienti scattavano dei selfie con i loro smartphone, lo staff ha dovuto fare un break per evitare un sold-out. Il nostro reporter in backstage ci riferisce che i saldi hanno aumentato le vendite degli ultimi modelli più fashion**. Eccovi adesso la top hit del weekend!

*well, in this case a French word + an English word is also possible.
*in Italy, fashion is an adjective, it means fashionable.

[melski]

/ Heheh, melski-യ്ക്കും ഈ thread ഇഷ്ടപ്പെട്ടുപോയേ? സന്തോഷം! you like this thread now, too, huh? I'm glad! Oh, and welcome to the bilingual thread.

പക്ഷേ But..."le best-of du week-end"?? Lol. "Best du week-end" എന്ന് പറഞ്ഞാൽ പോരേ? Couldn't you just say "best du week-end"? Why "best-of du"?

In French, we use a lot of English loanwords "improperly", adapting it to French word order. Many people wouldn't use "best du week-end" because the loan word is "best-of" (you can have some expressions like "menu maxi best-of" at MacDonald's).
[flag=]fr[/flag]Voici un autre exemple de mots anglais entrés dans la langue française (donc pas de codeswitching mais bien des emprunts), avec quelques inventions bien française pour sonner "trendy" (en gras).
[flag=]en[/flag] Here's another example of English words that have entered the French language and are therefore loawords, not codeswitching; we also have some very French invented words designed to sound "trendy" (in bold)..

[flag=]fr[/flag]"Cet été, il y avait beaucoup de surfeurs à la plage. Tandis que certains s'adonnaient aux joies du kite surf, d'autres faisaient du bronzing sur leur relax. Plus loin, un sportif en short faisait son footing le long du parking du camping. "C'est trop cool!" lança un gamin, tout content de savourer son milkshake. "On y go?" demanda un jeune à ses potes, avant de crier "first !" et de se jeter dans l'eau. "yes ! l'eau est trop bonne!"

[flag=]en[/flag] This summer, there were many surfers at the beach. While some where enjoying kite surfing, others were sunbathing on their reclining chair. Further up, a sportsman wearing shorts was jogging along the parking lot of the camping. "That's sooo cool!" said a boy, so happy enjoying his milkshake. "Let's go?" asked a young man to his buddies, before shouting "first!" and rushing into the water. "Yes! The water is so warm!"

[JuxtapositionQMan]

In French, we use a lot of English loanwords "improperly", adapting it to French word order. Many people wouldn't use "best du week-end" because the loan word is "best-of" (you can have some expressions like "menu maxi best-of" at MacDonald's).

[flag=]eo[/flag]Okay, so laŭ ona denaskanglparolanto, as a native English-speaker, mi I never komprenis tial ke understood why aliuj other languages tujsciinte blatantly copy English, especially when ĝi n'eĉ it doesn't even fitas the orthography. French "Week-end" could facile easily be "Uikènde", as can German "Handy" be "Händie", kaj n'eĉ igu min ekanta pri and don't even get me started on "das Public Viewing"! Povus could someone please explain this por mi to me?

[melski]

[flag=]en[/flag] Oh la la! It's very simple. When the élite and the bourgeoisie want to sound chic, they borrow words from other languages without any trouble. Especially if they have a rendez-vous, they will invite their fiancée to the restaurant, eating a buffet. To avoid an impression of déjà-vu, they will order the best hors d'oeuvre from the finest French cuisine - fois gras is so cliché! Of course, a great Cabernet Sauvignon or Bordeau wine is definitely de rigueur; and don't forget the crême brûlée for desert either. Bon appétit!

[JuxtapositionQMan]

[flag=]eo[/flag]Punktiĝantan. Point taken. How about languages ke that actually haveas an orthography aŭ ne'stas or aren't known tiom ŝteli to that extent to steal words from all corners de la of the Earth?

Other English borrow-languages:
Spanish: Burrito
German: Schadenfreude
Dutch: Aardvark
Russian: Pogrom
Italian: Viola
Japanese: Haiku
Chinese: Feng Shuei
Hindi: Cot
Native American Languages: Chipmunk
Portuguese: Albatross
Hungarian: Paprika
Swedish: Glögg
Norwegian: Fjord
Swahili: Safari
Arabic: Rook
African languages: Yam
Malay: Cooties
???: Okay

[vijayjohn]

How about languages ke that actually haveas an orthography aŭ ne'stas or aren't known tiom ŝteli to that extent to steal words from all corners de la of the Earth?

/ At first JuxtapositionQMan* പറഞ്ഞത് എനിക്ക് ചൊവ്വേ മനസ്സിലായില്ല. പക്ഷെ ഇപ്പോഴെനിക്ക്‌ പിടികിട്ടിയെന്ന് തോന്നി I didn't really understand what you said. But now I think I got it.

I think it's just easier for people who are already studying (or already know) English to represent the borrowed words in their original orthography, rather than having to come up with a completely new nativized spelling. (There may be other reasons, too, but this is one I thought of). പക്ഷെ ഇത് ചിലപ്പം ഒരു political issue ആയിരിക്കും But this is a political issue sometimes. For example, if my understanding is correct, Croatian (and, to a large extent, Bosnian) tends to write foreign names in the original orthography (e.g. George), whereas Serbian tends to write them out using Serbian orthography (e.g. Džordž/Џорџ).

ഇപ്പോഴേ ഞാൻ ഓർത്തതാണ്. ഒരു ക്രിസ്തീയ ഗീതം ഉണ്ട്. മലയാളത്തിൽ വാക്കുകൾ ഒരുമാതിരി ഇങ്ങനാണെന്ന് തോന്നി I just remembered. There's a Christian song (hymn). I think the words in Malayalam are basically like this (I don't remember whether there's an English version of this hymn or not. This is only part of the song):

"യേശുവേ, നിന്റെ രൂപമേ എന്റെ കണ്ണുകൾക്കെത്ര സൌന്ദര്യം! [attempt at rough translation] O Jesus, how beautiful your figure is to my eyes!
ദാസനാകുന്ന എന്നെയും നിന്നെപോലെയാക്കേണം പൂര്ണ്ണമായ്." Please make me, your servant, completely like you.

[ˈjeːɕuʋeː ˈn̪ɪ̃nde ˈɾuːbə̃meː ˈjɛ̃nde ˈkə̃ɳɳʊgəɭkɛt̪ra ˈsaʊ̃n̪d̪əɾjə̃m]
[ˈd̪aːsɛ̃naːgun̪n̪a jɛ̃nˈnejʊ̃m n̪ɪ̃nneˈpoːlejaːkẽːɳə̃m ˈpuːrɳɳə̃maːj]

അപ്പ കോളേജിലായിരുന്ന സമയത്തിൽ തമാശയായിട്ട് ചില students ഇങ്ങനെ പാടിയായിരുന്നു When my dad was in college, some students sang it this way as a joke:

"Jesus-ഏ, your photo-യേ എന്റെ eyes-കൾക്കെത്ര beautiful!
Servant ആകുന്ന me-യെയും you-വെപോലെയാക്കേണം complete-ആയ്."

[ˈdʒiːsəseː jʊˈʋər foːˈʈoːjeː ˈjɛ̃nde ˈəjsʊgəɭkɛt̪ra ˈbjuːʈifʊɭ]
[sərˈʋɛ̃ntaːgun̪n̪a mijejʊ̃m juʋeˈpoːlejaːkẽːɳə̃m kə̃mˈpɭiːtaːj]

*In Malayalam, you're not allowed to use the second person singular pronoun with people you want to show any respect to. അതുകൊണ്ട് "നീ പറഞ്ഞത്" എന്ന് പറയുന്നതിനുപകരം "JuxtapositionQMan പറഞ്ഞത്" എന്ന് എനിക്ക് പറയണമായിരുന്നു. So I had to say "what JuxtapositionQMan said" instead of "what you said." That's also why ഇന്നലെ ഞാൻ "melski" എന്ന് എഴുതിയത് I wrote "melski" yesterday.

[JuxtapositionQMan]

I think it's just easier for people who are already studying (or already know) English to represent the borrowed words in their original orthography, rather than having to come up with a completely new nativized spelling. (There may be other reasons, too, but this is one I thought of). പക്ഷെ ഇത് ചിലപ്പം ഒരു political issue ആയിരിക്കും But this is a political issue sometimes. For example, if my understanding is correct, Croatian (and, to a large extent, Bosnian) tends to write foreign names in the original orthography (e.g. George), whereas Serbian tends to write them out using Serbian orthography (e.g. Džordž/Џорџ).

[flag=]eo[/flag]Dankon
Thank you

[vijayjohn]

You're welcome! (മലയാളത്തിൽ അത് പറയാൻ അത്ര എളുപ്പമല്ല It isn't too easy to say that in Malayalam. ).