Multilingual True Friends

This is our main forum. Here, anything related to languages and linguistics can be discussed.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Forum Administrators

User avatar
Aleco
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 8596
Joined: 2006-04-10, 19:05
Real Name: Alecsander
Gender: male
Location: Onsøy
Country: NO Norway (Norge)
Contact:

Multilingual True Friends

Postby Aleco » 2012-02-26, 23:52

How about words across languages that aren't too closely related, yet have the same, or close to the same meaning? (Or languages where words have evolved differently, but ended up as the same?) These would often be onomatopoeia probably, but not necessarily. The words I've posted below is the result of the joint efforts of an onomatopoetic morpheme (su/sutt) and a preterite verb ending (tta/a).

[flag]ja[/flag] sutta (su-tta) sucked
[flag]no[/flag] sutta (sutt-a) sucked [in small amounts]
Last edited by Aleco on 2012-02-27, 1:19, edited 1 time in total.
Native (no) Fluent (en-us)
Understands (sv) Understands (dk) Studied (ja)
Mom's side of the family (fo) Study now and then (et) Curious about (cs) Playing with (ga)

User avatar
BlackZ
Posts: 1115
Joined: 2010-07-16, 20:53
Real Name: JSR
Gender: male
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby BlackZ » 2012-02-27, 0:30

[flag]ja[/flag] ね ne (particle that means "right?" "isn't it?")
[flag]pt-br[/flag] né (contraction of "não é?" which means "isn't it?" - colloquial)

[flag]ja[/flag] か ka (interrogative particle)
[flag]grn[/flag] pa (interrogative particle)

Just note that the interrogative particle comes at the end of the sentence in Japanese, but it goes after the subject (or after the verb if the subject is omitted) in Guaraní.
Native:  (pt-br)
Learning:  (en-us)  (fr)  (ja)  (es)  (ca)  (de)

User avatar
Remis
Posts: 1566
Joined: 2011-04-20, 11:50
Real Name: Remis Kalvan
Location: Oslo, Østensjø.
Country: NO Norway (Norge)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Remis » 2012-02-27, 1:04

[flag]ja[/flag] か ka (interrogative particle)
[flag]grn[/flag] pa (interrogative particle)
[flag]zh[/flag] 吗 ma (interrogative particle)

Same use as in Japanese, mostly.
(I know, /m/ isn't even a plosive, but they all end in <a>, so...)
Remis Kalvan | art / ˈfɛɪsˌbʊk | L1: [flag]no-nb[/flag] L2: [flag]en[/flag] reading short stories in: [flag]it[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]

TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
Wanderlustin' for [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]af[/flag]

User avatar
Aleco
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 8596
Joined: 2006-04-10, 19:05
Real Name: Alecsander
Gender: male
Location: Onsøy
Country: NO Norway (Norge)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Aleco » 2012-02-27, 1:30

A couple of more, based on the pronunciation which is basically identical across the languages:

[flag]no[/flag] kva på slovensk? what in Slovene?
[flag]sl-Ljubljanadialect[/flag] kva po slovensk? what in Slovene?

[flag]no-severaldialects[/flag] ke what ~hvat
[flag]es[/flag] que what ~quid

Related languages, but they evolved differently and still ended up in the same spot. Kind of cool ;)
Native (no) Fluent (en-us)
Understands (sv) Understands (dk) Studied (ja)
Mom's side of the family (fo) Study now and then (et) Curious about (cs) Playing with (ga)

User avatar
Serafín
Posts: 7306
Joined: 2008-08-14, 2:55
Real Name: Renato
Gender: male
Location: British Columbia / Colombie Britannique
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Serafín » 2012-02-27, 4:04

[flag]ja[/flag] Japanese: あんた anta - you (informal/rude singular)
[flag]ar[/flag] Standard Arabic: أنت ʔanta - you (masculine singular)

...Which is ironic, because while ʔanta tends to strike Arabic speakers as very formal, the exact opposite happens in Japanese. :P

[flag]ar-EG[/flag] Egyptian Arabic: فصل faSl [fɑsˁl] "classroom"
[flag]yue.Hant[/flag] Cantonese: 課室 fo2sat1 [fɔ:˧˥ sɐt̚˥] "classroom"

(An [f], some low-back-ish vowel, an [s]-like sound, and an alveolar/dental consonant. Yeah.)

[flag]ja[/flag] 乳 chichi "breast, udder; milk"
[flag]ja[/flag] 父 chichi "father" (Japan... a place of (seemingly) endless oddities)
Nahuat(l): chichi, chichin "breast"
[flag]es-SV[/flag] Salvadoran Spanish: chiche "breast; easy"
[flag]es-SV[/flag] Salvadoran Spanish: chichí "baby, toddler"

User avatar
WallOfStuff
Posts: 619
Joined: 2011-09-20, 0:33
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby WallOfStuff » 2012-02-27, 4:57

^C-c-c-combo breaker! (You're the only one without an animal avatar)

Mandarin: "de" for posession
Spanish: "de" for posession/"of"

User avatar
Serafín
Posts: 7306
Joined: 2008-08-14, 2:55
Real Name: Renato
Gender: male
Location: British Columbia / Colombie Britannique
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Serafín » 2012-02-27, 5:28

eversleep wrote:Mandarin: "de" for posession
Spanish: "de" for posession/"of"
Huh. I had actually never realized that.

Some very famous and discussed case of true friends, or maybe borrowing:

[flag]ar[/flag] Standard Arabic: حتى Hattä [ˈħættɐ] - until; up to (a place)
[flag]es[/flag] Modern Spanish: hasta [ˈasta] - until (in some dialects), not until OR until (in some dialects); up to (a place)

So far so good. Some people argue that Modern Spanish hasta comes from Latin ad ista ("to these"), that if it came from Arabic [ˈħættɐ] then the [st] isn't justified. On the other hand, Coromines argued that it was first adapted as [-dt-], changing later to [-ðt-], then to [-st-]... And it gets all the more weird because in actual Old Spanish texts you see all these different competing forms: <ata>, <adta>, <fasta>, <asta>... <ata> being the most common early on, giving the place later to [asta] to the demise of the others.
Last edited by Serafín on 2012-04-07, 4:35, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Remis
Posts: 1566
Joined: 2011-04-20, 11:50
Real Name: Remis Kalvan
Location: Oslo, Østensjø.
Country: NO Norway (Norge)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Remis » 2012-02-27, 7:29

Aleco wrote:[flag]no-severaldialects[/flag] ke what ~hvat
[flag]es[/flag] que what ~quid

Related languages, but they evolved differently and still ended up in the same spot. Kind of cool ;)
Not to mention
[flag]it[/flag] che what
Which has a pronunciation virtually identical to the Norwegian one (Spanish is more of a /kʷe/ type of thing, iirc; might be wrong though).
Remis Kalvan | art / ˈfɛɪsˌbʊk | L1: [flag]no-nb[/flag] L2: [flag]en[/flag] reading short stories in: [flag]it[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]

TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
Wanderlustin' for [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]af[/flag]

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 4155
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: QLD
Country: AU Australia (Australia)

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Saim » 2012-02-27, 7:45

Aleco wrote:A couple of more, based on the pronunciation which is basically identical across the languages:

[flag]no[/flag] kva på slovensk? what in Slovene?
[flag]sl-Ljubljanadialect[/flag] kva po slovensk? what in Slovene?

[flag]no-severaldialects[/flag] ke what ~hvat
[flag]es[/flag] que what ~quid

Related languages, but they evolved differently and still ended up in the same spot. Kind of cool ;)

[flag]es[/flag] que that
[flag]ur[/flag] ke that (introducing dependent clause)

User avatar
Remis
Posts: 1566
Joined: 2011-04-20, 11:50
Real Name: Remis Kalvan
Location: Oslo, Østensjø.
Country: NO Norway (Norge)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Remis » 2012-02-27, 10:22

[flag]es[/flag] el - masculine singular definite article
[flag]ar-arb[/flag] -ال al- /εl/ - definite article

[flag]et[/flag] ta - third person singular pronoun
[flag]zh[/flag] 他/她/它 - third person singular pronoun (the first hanzi is the original one; the latter two were added when the Chinese felt a need for 3rd person fem./masc. distinction)

[flag]fi[/flag] hän - third person singular pronoun
[flag]no-bok[/flag] han - third person masculine singular pronoun
[flag]no[/flag] hæn(n) - third person masculine singular pronoun (dialect, pronounced the same as the Finnish)
Last edited by Remis on 2012-02-27, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.
Remis Kalvan | art / ˈfɛɪsˌbʊk | L1: [flag]no-nb[/flag] L2: [flag]en[/flag] reading short stories in: [flag]it[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]

TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
Wanderlustin' for [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]af[/flag]

User avatar
zeme
Posts: 587
Joined: 2009-09-07, 2:17
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby zeme » 2012-02-27, 16:55

[flag]pl[/flag] /sɔ̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of być -- to be)
[flag]fr[/flag] sont /sɔ̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of être -- to be)
The fellow who thinks he knows it all is especially annoying to those of us who do.

ffrench
Posts: 1906
Joined: 2009-11-11, 20:45
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby ffrench » 2012-02-27, 17:19

[flag]pl[/flag] /sɔ̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of być -- to be)
[flag]fr[/flag] sont /sɔ̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of être -- to be)
[flag]pt[/flag] são /saw̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of ser -- to be)

User avatar
MillMaths
Posts: 11897
Joined: 2011-06-15, 9:15
Real Name: George Law
Gender: male
Location: London
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual true friends

Postby MillMaths » 2012-02-27, 17:28

ffrench wrote:[flag]fr[/flag] sont /sɔ̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of être -- to be)
[flag]pt[/flag] são /saw̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of ser -- to be)
Aren't they related?

ffrench
Posts: 1906
Joined: 2009-11-11, 20:45
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Multilingual true friends

Postby ffrench » 2012-02-27, 17:51

Sophie wrote:
ffrench wrote:[flag]fr[/flag] sont /sɔ̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of être -- to be)
[flag]pt[/flag] são /saw̃/ (third-person plural present indicative of ser -- to be)
Aren't they related?


Yes, but the Polish also reminds me of the Portuguese. I know it's not strictly in line, but all three have [s] and a nasal vowel.

[flag]fr[/flag] qui /ki/ who
[flag]hu[/flag] ki /ki/ who

[flag]es[/flag] probar to try
[flag]hu[/flag] próbálni to try

User avatar
Remis
Posts: 1566
Joined: 2011-04-20, 11:50
Real Name: Remis Kalvan
Location: Oslo, Østensjø.
Country: NO Norway (Norge)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual true friends

Postby Remis » 2012-02-27, 18:00

ffrench wrote:[flag]es[/flag] probar to try
[flag]hu[/flag] próbálni to try
[flag]no-bok[/flag] (å) prøve to try
Remis Kalvan | art / ˈfɛɪsˌbʊk | L1: [flag]no-nb[/flag] L2: [flag]en[/flag] reading short stories in: [flag]it[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]

TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
Wanderlustin' for [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]af[/flag]

User avatar
LackOfFuel
Posts: 787
Joined: 2011-02-25, 14:00
Real Name: Domen
Gender: male
Location: Celje
Country: SI Slovenia (Slovenija)

Re: Multilingual true friends

Postby LackOfFuel » 2012-02-27, 18:10

Remis wrote:
ffrench wrote:[flag]es[/flag] probar to try
[flag]hu[/flag] próbálni to try
[flag]no-bok[/flag] (å) prøve to try

[flag]sl[/flag] probati - to try
Smisel življenja je ležanje na plaži. 8-)

User avatar
Marah
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 3015
Joined: 2011-06-03, 17:01
Real Name: Jonathan
Gender: male
Country: FR France (France)

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Marah » 2012-02-27, 18:11

Remis wrote:
Aleco wrote:[flag]no-severaldialects[/flag] ke what ~hvat
[flag]es[/flag] que what ~quid

Related languages, but they evolved differently and still ended up in the same spot. Kind of cool ;)
Not to mention
[flag]it[/flag] che what
Which has a pronunciation virtually identical to the Norwegian one (Spanish is more of a /kʷe/ type of thing, iirc; might be wrong though).

I think both spanish and Italians "que" are pronounced the same
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

User avatar
MillMaths
Posts: 11897
Joined: 2011-06-15, 9:15
Real Name: George Law
Gender: male
Location: London
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual true friends

Postby MillMaths » 2012-02-27, 19:47

[flag]es[/flag] da – (he/she/it) gives (from dar)
[flag]pl[/flag] da – (he/she/it) gives (from dać)

Mutusen
Posts: 1114
Joined: 2007-10-17, 19:12
Gender: male
Country: SK Slovakia (Slovensko)
Contact:

Re: Multilingual true friends

Postby Mutusen » 2012-02-27, 20:00

According to Wikipedia, there's an Australian language in which the word for "dog" is dog.

Also, haben in German and habere in Latin (both mean "to have") come from different Indo-European roots.

LackOfFuel wrote:
Remis wrote:
ffrench wrote:[flag]es[/flag] probar to try
[flag]hu[/flag] próbálni to try
[flag]no-bok[/flag] (å) prøve to try

[flag]sl[/flag] probati - to try

Sophie wrote:[flag]es[/flag] da – (he/she/it) gives (from dar)
[flag]pl[/flag] da – (he/she/it) gives (from dać)

Does anyone know the etymology of these words? I wouldn't be surprised if they were related. (By the way, dać is perfective, so da means "will give".)
„Koľko jazykov vieš, toľkokrát si človekom.“

User avatar
Marah
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 3015
Joined: 2011-06-03, 17:01
Real Name: Jonathan
Gender: male
Country: FR France (France)

Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Marah » 2012-02-27, 20:04

[flag]it[/flag] le tasche the pockets
[flag]de[/flag] die Tasche the pocket

Are they related?
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.


Return to “General Language Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests