Multilingual false friends

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-09, 1:54

cHr0mChIk wrote:Korean (ko) 니가 (niga) - you

This is just wrong AFAICT. Where'd you get it from?
Also, I giggled when I heard this line of a Hindi/Urdu song:
- "Kar de idhar bhi tu nigaahein" (I believe it means "have a look at me, as well")

niggaahein apparently means "look", but it just sounds like "ni**a, hey!" to me.

Nigaah means 'look', and nigaahein [nɪˈgaɦẽ] is the plural form. It's a loanword from Persian نگاه, which is of course related to the verb stem Vlürch mentioned.
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Michael wrote: (az) (tr) mal beef
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This is the third time these words are being brought up in this thread.

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby Osias » 2017-03-09, 2:42

So it should not be a thread, but a wiki?
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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby cHr0mChIk » 2017-03-09, 10:03

vijayjohn wrote:
cHr0mChIk wrote:Korean (ko) 니가 (niga) - you

This is just wrong AFAICT. Where'd you get it from?


니가 is the informal way to say "you".
وَقَالُوا لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلَّا مَن كَانَ هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
بَلَىٰ مَنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby księżycowy » 2017-03-09, 11:00

It's technically an alternative pronunciation of 네가, which in turn is 네 (you) + 가 (= Jap. が).

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby cHr0mChIk » 2017-03-09, 11:13

księżycowy wrote:It's technically an alternative pronunciation of 네가, which in turn is 네 (you) + 가 (= Jap. が).


Yeah, it's like a slang/informal word. :)
وَقَالُوا لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلَّا مَن كَانَ هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
بَلَىٰ مَنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-09, 13:29

Ah, OK. And it's specifically a subject pronoun? Or does 가 work like が even in constructions like 日本語が話せます?

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby księżycowy » 2017-03-09, 16:48

From what I understand, the Korean particle is relatively new, so I don't know it's actual usage.

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-09, 18:54

księżycowy wrote:From what I understand, the Korean particle is relatively new, so I don't know it's actual usage.

Yeah, it's only about a thousand years old. :)

I'm not sure how that Japanese construction works. In the Korean equivalent, the name of the language optionally takes a direct object suffix, i.e. 한국어(를) 할 수있어요? /han.kwuk.e (lul) hal swu iss.e.yo/. I think it could also take the topic suffix 는 /nun/ depending on the pragmatic context, although I'm only finding declarative examples.
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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby księżycowy » 2017-03-09, 22:18

Looks like my information was a bit wrong then. Thanks for the correct info, and further explanation, Linguoboy.

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-09, 22:50

vijayjohn wrote:Ah, OK. And it's specifically a subject pronoun?

Specifically subject.

What you have is a merger in process betweenㅐ/ay/ and ㅔ/ey/. This began in Kyŏngsang and spread to Seoul speech after the war with the rise of so many people from that province to political prominence. (Five of the last seven elected presidents were born there, for instance.) Now it's general among younger Seoul speakers. This merger makes homophones of 내가 /nay ka/ "I" and 네가 /ney ka/ "you [inf. subj.]", which has caused a dissimilatory shift of 네가 to 니가 /ni ka/.
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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-10, 1:36

Yeah, I found out after looking it up in Wiktionary later that 니가 is used for dissimilation from/to avoid confusion with 내가. I'd sort of heard about politicians being from Kyŏngsang but didn't know the merger began there.
linguoboy wrote:I'm not sure how that Japanese construction works.

With verbs in the potential form, direct objects are marked with が, never を, so IIRC subjects have to be marked with は instead. I guess Korean doesn't have this.

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-10, 3:34

vijayjohn wrote:With verbs in the potential form, direct objects are marked with が, never を, so IIRC subjects have to be marked with は instead. I guess Korean doesn't have this.

According to Martin, the Japanese potential form is a subtype of passive. That seems reasonable semantically ("gets Xed" > "can be Xed") and explains the subject marking on the logical object. But the Korean potential form is an adnominal construction composed of a postmodifer (generally /swu/ "means, occasional, ability") preceded by a full clause suffixed with the prospective modifier /ul/. So 한국어 할 수있어요? can be broken down as:

/han.kwuk.e hal swu iss.e.yo/
Han-country-language do-PROSP ability exist-INF-POL

Lit., "Does the ability to speak Korean exist?"

Doesn't Japanese have a similar potential construction with こと, i.e. 日本語を話すことができますか?
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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-10, 3:41

AFAIK, yes, it does have that construction and also constructions like 日本語を話すことがありますか 'do you speak Japanese?'.

EDIT: No, wait. I think I'm confusing constructions. There is past tense verb + ことがありますか for 'have you ever" + past tense verb, I think.

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby Vlürch » 2017-03-10, 4:27

linguoboy wrote:Lit., "Does the ability to speak Korean exist?"

What if someone wants to specifically ask that? It's a stupid question, but people do ask stupid questions sometimes... like I'm doing right now. :P

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-10, 14:21

Vlürch wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Lit., "Does the ability to speak Korean exist?"

What if someone wants to specifically ask that? It's a stupid question, but people do ask stupid questions sometimes... like I'm doing right now. :P

Well then, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to say that.
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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby cHr0mChIk » 2017-03-10, 15:51

English (en) shock /ʃɒk/
Albanian (sq) shok /ʃɔk/ - male friend/boyfriend
Hungarian (hu) sok /ʃok/ - much/manu
Lithuanian (lt) šok /ʂoːk/ - jump! (imperative)
وَقَالُوا لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلَّا مَن كَانَ هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
بَلَىٰ مَنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2017-03-10, 16:03

 (en) shook [ʃʊk]
 (ga) sioc [ʃʊk] frost
 (cy) siwc [ʃʊk] jug [dial.]
 (cs) šuk [ʃuk] fuck
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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-10, 19:14

cHr0mChIk wrote:English (en) shock /ʃɒk/
Albanian (sq) shok /ʃɔk/ - male friend/boyfriend
Hungarian (hu) sok /ʃok/ - much/manu
Lithuanian (lt) šok /ʂoːk/ - jump! (imperative)

Urdu (ur) شوق / Hindi (hi) शौक़, शौक [ʃɔq] or [ʃɔk] - desire, pleasure, affection for something
Singlish (en-SG) shiok /ʃok/ - great, wonderful, delightful, pleasurable

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby Vlürch » 2017-03-11, 8:43

Turkish (tr) yazık - pity, shame, sin
Turkmen (tk) ýazyk - sin, fault, offence
Russian (ru) язык - language

Also, I was sure I'd posted this before, but apparently I didn't.
Finnish (fi) kynä - pen, pencil
Kazakh (kk) күнә - sin

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Re: Multilingual false friends

Postby PfifltriggPi » 2017-03-14, 0:33

 (fr-qc) l'auto - car
 (en-us) lotto - slang term for lottery
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