Adjective order

[Ayiaearel]

In English, some adjectives must be used in a particular order.

...in English, adjectives pertaining to size generally precede adjectives pertaining to age ("little old", not "old little"), which in turn generally precede adjectives pertaining to color ("old green", not "green old").

How rigid are these kinds of rules in your language?

[Psi-Lord]

Curious that one of your examples is about ‘little old’ versus ‘old little’, because I instantly remembered a line from a school play from back when I started studying English that said something about an ‘old little cottage in the woods’.

I have never thought about it regarding Portuguese. Although I assume that we have more freedom than English when it comes to such kind of order, I just go for what sounds right or what doesn’t after all, so I guess I’d have to ask a foreigner who happens to have studied Portuguese in order to know if they’re ever taught any such rules.

A rule of thumb I once read regarding the position of adjectives and the nouns they qualify had it that objective adjectives (size, colour etc.) usually come after the noun, while subjective adjectives (impressions, beauty etc.) either come before the noun or are free to be placed in either position. If two such adjectives are paired, then it sounds quite natural for me to insert the noun in between, such as in ‘an old green tree’ = uma velha árvore verde. Inverting the order, however, wouldn’t sound necessarily wrong – only highly poetical or literary.

[JackFrost]

Personally, placing English adjectives are quite straightforward compared to Romance languages like French. It's never really a problem for me, but again English is my native tongue.

French is a little hard for me to understand. I do know most of the adjectives must go after the noun, but not always. Some must go before the noun, and then some can go both sides of the noun, but the meaning is different in two positions.

According to the guide, most descriptive adjectives go after the noun. That includes colors, nationalities, tastes, religion, and others that describe things like personality and mood. The present and past participles go after the noun.

Certain descriptive adjectives go in front of the noun, which are adjectives expressing beauty, good, bad, age, and size.

And finally some can go both sides, depending on the meaning you want to express.

un grand homme - a great man
un homme grand - a tall man

mon ancienne école - my old (former) school
mon école ancienne - my old (aged) school

And the list goes on with a few dozen examples.

[Dingbats]

before and after nouns

That's not what this thread is about though. It's about the internal order of multiple adjectives modifying the same noun.

[Psi-Lord]

before and after nouns

That's not what this thread is about though. It's about the internal order of multiple adjectives modifying the same noun.

I’d made the same mistake at first, but then I realised AJRLegits had something else in mind and so I rewrote my post.

[Narbleh]

In Sjal, the order is determined by the importance of the adjective. In "a little old man", if his age is the focus, it's "vaar alis lin". If we're talking about a little man that happens to be old, it's "vaar lin alis".
If it's not really important, then the order is based on keeping consonants and vowels together among the adjectives to help form a sort of compound adjective, such as:
ruk tajr alë - ripe, sweet fruit
ëlim leduef eler - the other, wider hall

[Varislintu]

We had a test on English adjective order in high school, and I found it so hard to learn/memorize . Fortunately I already had an ear for much of it. I probably still make many mistakes/unnaturalities in this in English, though.

Lukiossa meillä oli koe englannin adjektiivijärjestyksestä, ja se oli minusta todella vaikea oppia (ulkoa) . Onneksi minulla oli jo korvaa suurelle osalle siitä. Tosin teen varmasti edelleen monta virhettä englanniksi tässä asiassa.

[JackFrost]

before and after nouns

That's not what this thread is about though. It's about the internal order of multiple adjectives modifying the same noun.

I’d made the same mistake at first, but then I realised AJRLegits had something else in mind and so I rewrote my post.

I blame you, Psi-Lord.


I honestly cannot explain that. I just know where to place them.

[nighean-neonach]

There's something about this topic in Gaelic summed up nicely here: http://www.akerbeltz.org/beagangaidhlig ... jorder.htm

[Æxylis]

if I have to use multiple adjectives in English... I'll use them in whatever order I want... I didn't even realize there was a set order to what type you had to use when
but if it didn't sound right, I'd probably just nominalize them...

for example:
the green little fast cat
the fast little green cat
the little green fast cat

technically these seem to imply different things

"the little "fast cat" which is green"
"the fast, little "green cat" "
"the little, but 'green' "fast cat" "
this last one is kind of similar to the first one, in these cases one could use a pun on 'green' to imply that the cat is also somewhat inexperienced

but if you're really bothered about the specifics, you could easily say something like

the little "green cat" of much quickness or something like that I guess

[Oleksij]

:lol: if I have to use multiple adjectives in English... I'll use them in whatever order I want... I didn't even realize there was a set order to what type you had to use when
but if it didn't sound right, I'd probably just nominalize them...

for example:
the green little fast cat
the fast little green cat
the little green fast cat

technically these seem to imply different things

"the little "fast cat" which is green"
"the fast, little "green cat" "
"the little, but 'green' "fast cat" "
this last one is kind of similar to the first one, in these cases one could use a pun on 'green' to imply that the cat is also somewhat inexperienced

but if you're really bothered about the specifics, you could easily say something like

the little "green cat" of much quickness or something like that I guess

'The fast little green cat' sounds correct to me. The rest doesn't. The order of adjectives is not easy to comprehend, but I somehow have grasped it and now I know where to place what. I think.

[Æxylis]

:lol: if I have to use multiple adjectives in English... I'll use them in whatever order I want... I didn't even realize there was a set order to what type you had to use when
but if it didn't sound right, I'd probably just nominalize them...

for example:
the green little fast cat
the fast little green cat
the little green fast cat

technically these seem to imply different things

"the little "fast cat" which is green"
"the fast, little "green cat" "
"the little, but 'green' "fast cat" "
this last one is kind of similar to the first one, in these cases one could use a pun on 'green' to imply that the cat is also somewhat inexperienced

but if you're really bothered about the specifics, you could easily say something like

the little "green cat" of much quickness or something like that I guess

'The fast little green cat' sounds correct to me. The rest doesn't. The order of adjectives is not easy to comprehend, but I somehow have grasped it and now I know where to place what. I think.

hehe... technically they could all be correct...

btw... quick little tip...should be don't or do not, rather than doesn't as doesn't implies does not, which is the third person singular form, rather than the third person plural...

[Ayiaearel]

That's not what this thread is about though. It's about the internal order of multiple adjectives modifying the same noun.

I’d made the same mistake at first, but then I realised AJRLegits had something else in mind and so I rewrote my post.

Eh, it doesn't matter all that much. It's a related topic and I go off topic all the time anyway, so I won't complain. I'm kind of wondering about both.

'The fast little green cat' sounds correct to me. The rest doesn't. The order of adjectives is not easy to comprehend, but I somehow have grasped it and now I know where to place what. I think.

That's the order I'd use by default too. I suppose you could make the others work, but it would probably have a different nuance, like Jaakuuta was saying.

[Grytolle]

In English, some adjectives must be used in a particular order.

...in English, adjectives pertaining to size generally precede adjectives pertaining to age ("little old", not "old little"), which in turn generally precede adjectives pertaining to color ("old green", not "green old").

How rigid are these kinds of rules in your language?

In that sentence "little" would function as an adverb imo, which alters the meaning a lot.

[Psi-Lord]

I blame you, Psi-Lord.

I can’t accept that – I posted my new, edited message at least five minutes before you posted yours, so I’m legally innocent.

[JackFrost]

I blame you, Psi-Lord.

I can’t accept that – I posted my new, edited message at least five minutes before you posted yours, so I’m legally innocent.

Not really.

I read your post five minutes before yours, and then I spent 5 minutes writing out mine and posted it.

Guilty as charged.

I can't be arsed to fix it now.

[TaylorS]

In my mind changing the order of the adjectives results in subtle sifts in emphasis, focus, and meaning.

If I say "little old woman" the adjective "little" is emphasized.

If I say "old little woman" the adjective "old" is emphasized

[Formiko]

One of the first things I learned when I was learning Spanish, was adjective placement. la casa roja..you have to have a house before it can be red.

In Cherokee, putting the adjective first is the normal way.
gígage gáljode ᎩᎦᎨ ᎦᎵᏦᏕ red house

But if you switch it around to
galjode gigage, you get the house is red, since "to be" doesn't exist.

[eskandar]

:lol: if I have to use multiple adjectives in English... I'll use them in whatever order I want... I didn't even realize there was a set order to what type you had to use when

for example:
the green little fast cat
the fast little green cat
the little green fast cat

technically these seem to imply different things

"the little "fast cat" which is green"
"the fast, little "green cat" "
"the little, but 'green' "fast cat" "
this last one is kind of similar to the first one, in these cases one could use a pun on 'green' to imply that the cat is also somewhat inexperienced

If "green," "little," and "fast" are all used as independent adjectives describing a cat, then the correct order is "the fast little green cat," as Oleksij pointed out. Though English is not his native language, somehow he still speaks it better than you. The only reason your examples 'work' is that you invented an imaginary word, "fast-cat." Of course, the situation would be different if you'd used a better example, like "Fat Cat" (a rich political donor); the point is that "fast" in your example, or "fat" in mine, is not an independent adjective but is necessarily attached to the noun and therefore is treated as part of the noun phrase. So, the relationship between adjectives and the noun (or noun phrase) is still the same.

In sum: you are wrong.

but if you're really bothered about the specifics, you could easily say something like

the little "green cat" of much quickness or something like that I guess

I really hope no foreign learners of English read this and take it seriously. If you say something like "the little green cat of much quickness" you will sound like an utter fool (or at least a markedly foreign non-native learner).

The rest doesn't.

btw... quick little tip...should be don't or do not, rather than doesn't as doesn't implies does not, which is the third person singular form, rather than the third person plural...

No, you are wrong again, and you're really not in a position to be offering advice to non-native speakers of English. It is perfectly acceptable to treat "the rest" as singular in this case. Here are some examples from the New York Times:

The rest of the team is likely to be named on Sunday.

The rest of the team has more experience in the world's troubles than any in decades.

While the rest of us is thinking that it is almost hopeless to fix the Darfur situation, one great lady dares to see it differently.

When the group implied by "the rest" is referred to as a single entity, the singular form of the corresponding verb should be used. Otherwise, the plural form is appropriate.

[eskandar]

One of the first things I learned when I was learning Spanish, was adjective placement. la casa roja..you have to have a house before it can be red.

This example doesn't hold true for all cases in Spanish, however. For instance, el gran amigo. If you have to have a house before it can be red, why don't you have to have a friend before he can be great?